Danbooru

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Admiral_Shippai said:

By that definition Pokemon is also a gacha game. And getting pregnant is also a gacha game.

I was hoping someone would bring up Pokemon! Pokemon is definitely a borderline case - I personally wouldn't call it a gacha game, but if someone else came up to me and sincerely argued that it was, I'd be willing to hear them out. The two big distinctions are that a) you don't have to spend any numerical resources in order to encounter more wild pokemon, and b) there is a non-randomized way to obtain any pokemon you want in the game, which is trading with other players.

The first point may seem like a pointless distinction, especially when comparing to a game where the resource "spent" to roll the gacha can be obtained by grinding, because in both cases you're ultimately just spending time to do both once the smoke and mirrors are taken away. but it's all about psychology - having to numerically spend a resource in order to roll the gacha makes it feel "more valuable" in the player's mind and encourages them to roll more. The trading, however, is the bigger distinction. Every part of Pokemon's design, especially in its earlier iterations, is meant to encourage players to meet up and trade with each other, and the "gacha" that is wild pokemon encounters is no different. You're not supposed to "roll" over and over again until you get exactly what you want, you're supposed to poke around just long enough to get something valuable that you can then trade for whatever you actually wanted. Note that the strongest and most desirable pokemon in the game - legendaries - tend to be explicitly non-random in how you encounter them, which means that if there's a legendary that you don't actually want long-term, and a "regular" but rare pokemon that you do want but don't want to bother with trying to "roll" for, finding another player who will be willing to trade the rare non-legendary you want for your unwanted legendary is relatively easy. Then again, the physical goods that you get from actual gachapon machines can obviously be traded, so if tradability disqualifies something from being a gacha, then actual gachapon machines wouldn't qualify. Like I said, Pokemon is a borderline case, and there's merit to either interpretation.

Meanwhile, I had been led to believe that ship construction is the primary means via which you're meant to get new units in Kantai Collection, and that outside of your starter ship and a select few early quest rewards like Shirayuki and Akagi, there's no surefire guaranteed way to get any ship - Myschi said that event rewards in KC aren't randomized, but I distinctly remember people making references in comics and comments to having to run events multiple times in order to get what they wanted. And I haven't seen any reference made to players being able to trade shipgirls between each other.

As for your second point, pregnancy can't be a gacha game because it's not a game, and the process of childbearing can't reasonably be called a "gameplay loop". If you do want to apply game logic to the process though, I will say that if you could only "roll" a particular gacha once every 9 months, and then had to wait 20 years before you knew for certain what you got out of that "roll", we would be having a very different conversation. The whole point of a gachapon machine, virtual or otherwise, is that you can crank the lever over and over again until you get the exact result you want, and having kids simply... doesn't work like that.

Also dont be an hypocrite blaming KC considering Touhou was one of the first ones coming up with an all female cast of cute moe-anthropomorphic youkai girls way before KC or shipgirls were a thing.

The difference is that Touhou doesn't have a faceless self-insert for lonely nerds that 90% of the cast have the hots for for no discernable reason (with the other 10% being incestuous lesbians in order to facilitate "girl-on-girl is hot" fantasies). Touhou very much stands out for how little romance and "fanservice" it has - even the yuri is at least 95% invented by fanworks, with the characters in canon mostly just being huge assholes to each other. Touhou is an industry leader in female characters who don't feel like they were designed for the gratification of lonely straight dudes, and it was never the all-female cast or the moe-anthropomorphism that I was taking umbrage with, but the "gamified harem fantasy", or as BlindVigil put it, "collectable waifus", which Kantai Collection absolutely had a central role in popularizing, regardless of whether or not they were the literal first to do it. Take out the self-insert admiral and let the girls lead themselves, and Kantai Collection would be ten times better.

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    So I try logging in twitter this morning to find they are once again forcing everyone to call it X and now the whole page is dark mode.

    Annoyingly for me is how this affects my logging into Skeb. Usually it just logged in right away since the account was already linked now it not only asked me authorize access all over again but seems like it will keep doing that if I clear the browser. I'm guessing Skeb will need to update something on their end to ensure it stays that way.

    Updated

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