The "shirt" tag

Previous topic highlights

• forum #176811

Evazion said:
I think it would be easiest to just leave shirt as the umbrella tag, and broadly define shirt as any kind of top that is normally worn by itself. Things like jackets, coats, vests, or hoodies aren't shirts because they're not usually worn by themselves, they're usually worn over a shirt.

• forum #176040

BrokenEagle98 said:

I would be very much in favor of combining all of the shirt-type garments under one umbrella scheme.

Items

• blouse
• tank top
• camisole
• hoodie
• serafuku
• tubetop
• crop top

I think I got most of them.

For clarity, the above items would still stay, it's just that all of the qualifier versions of them, such as color and pattern, would be combined under one umbrella.

Name candidates

• 1. *_top
• 2. *_topwear
• 3. ???

I'd be in favor of #1 myself, since topwear to me implies a larger grouping of items (sweaters, cardigans, vests, jackets, coats), which I'm thinking is not something we want to do.

• forum #165743 : about implying blouse to shirt

nonamethanks said:

All definitions of "blouse" I could find online call it a shirt. The shirt tag is already watered down anyway, since it includes things like dress shirt and t-shirt, which look nothing alike.

What does everyone think about this?
I want to discuss what the better option is and hopefully reach a solution that hopefully results in fewer tags and confusion.

blouse basically has a similar issue to the one cravat had with ascot: everyone thinks they know what it is, but in truth on danbooru it's just used to tag loose shirts with some frills (and often not even that, see blouse serafuku: a lot of those are just normal shirts).

I think it should imply shirt because that's what it is. We have other varieties of shirts (like t-shirt), so an alias in retrospect would not make sense.

All the other entries in your quote are much more debatable, and I'm strongly in opposition of a generic "topwear" or "top" tag. Those tags, especially the legwear ones, were some big mistakes that we shouldn't attempt to replicate.

nonamethanks said:
I'm strongly in opposition of a generic "topwear" or "top" tag. Those tags, especially the legwear ones, were some big mistakes that we shouldn't attempt to replicate.

If we don't want to replicate that then we should just make the shirt definition broader like Evazion mentioned in my first quote. How does that sound?

I would prefer shirt be an umbrella tag. It has always been strange to me that things like tank top and crop top don't imply it, since I would think most people think of them as types of shirts.

We also have the undershirt tag. Should it imply shirt? Should it imply underwear?

Talulah said:

I would prefer shirt be an umbrella tag. It has always been strange to me that things like tank top and crop top don't imply it, since I would think most people think of them as types of shirts.

I agree. We should just broaden it's definition like Evazion mentioned before.

Talulah said:
We also have the undershirt tag. Should it imply shirt? Should it imply underwear?

Undershirt is a whole mess by itself. I don't really understand what it's suppose to be used for and the wiki mentions 5 tags, 4 of which don't exist.

Admiral_Pectoral said:

Undershirt is a whole mess by itself. I don't really understand what it's suppose to be used for and the wiki mentions 5 tags, 4 of which don't exist.

I think it's intended for thin shirts worn as innerwear underneath another shirt or (non-jacket/coat) apparel, but in practice it just get tagged for any shirt (or even sweaters and other clothing) worn underneath. This even include thick collared shirts worn under jackets.

Prolly should just move the examples under the appropriate tag then nuke undershirt. So-called actual "undershirts" can be tagged t-shirt, camisole, tank top or singlet as appropriate.

NNescio said:

I think it's intended for thin shirts worn as innerwear underneath another shirt or (non-jacket/coat) apparel, but in practice it just get tagged for any shirt (or even sweaters and other clothing) worn underneath. This even include thick collared shirts worn under jackets.

Prolly should just move the examples under the appropriate tag then nuke undershirt. So-called actual "undershirts" can be tagged t-shirt, camisole, tank top or singlet as appropriate.

Or we could just broadly define it as any shirt under another clothing. That's what I assumed undershirt meant when I first heard about the tag, and it seems I wasn't the only one.
It's another one of those wikis with rules that nobody follows, I guess.

Admiral_Pectoral said:

Or we could just broadly define it as any shirt under another clothing. That's what I assumed undershirt meant when I first heard about the tag, and it seems I wasn't the only one.

Post count for shirt ~jacket ~coat ~vest status:any: 158450. Are we sure that's a good idea?

nonamethanks said:

Post count for shirt ~jacket ~coat ~vest status:any: 158450. Are we sure that's a good idea?

It was just a suggestion. If others are all fine by describing a shirt under another clothing by just using the combination of shit + coat etc then I guess that's fine.

I've generally been using undershirt for whenever a character is wearing a shirt under another shirt. I haven't been tagging them as x_shirt though, since they're usually barely visible.

In any case, I agree that blouses, tank tops etc. are shirts. They should absolutely be implicated.