Danbooru

Gardening post with notes that aren't tagged as such

Posted under Tags

The 2nd in a series of proposed gardening projects that I'm requesting assistance on, the prior one was forum #250631; this one is intending to focus on posts that have made use of the note system Danbooru has, but has no tag added to indicate such, making searching for them more difficult:

As with the prior thread I'll provide what I'm using to generate the favgroup in case of oversights on my part and/or improvements to be made:

Show
WITH active_post_ids AS (
  SELECT post_id
  FROM danbooru1.danbooru_public.notes
  GROUP BY post_id
  HAVING MAX(is_active) = true
)
SELECT id AS post_id
FROM danbooru1.danbooru_public.posts AS posts
JOIN active_post_ids AS active_notes ON id = post_id
WHERE tag_string_meta NOT LIKE '%translat%'
AND tag_string_meta NOT LIKE '%annotat%'
AND tag_string_general NOT LIKE '%artist_self-reference%'
AND tag_string_general NOT LIKE '%typo%'
and is_deleted is false
and is_banned = false
ORDER BY id desc
limit 10000;

So far, I've noticed two main groups of meta tags that denote the use of note system:

So far the only other use I've seen with notes are either pointing out that parts of a post is part of another work by the same artist or correcting a typo that the artist made in their work

In my own efforts to work through these, I've found many posts with notes that translate the sound effects, often the only text on that post, and thought it not useful to put such posts in translated, so I've created two tags, a general tag, sound_effect_only, and a meta tag, sound_effect_only_translation to resolve the issue.

Here is a favgroup of the results generated for those who wish to work on this effort: favgroup #25223

Updated

As I recall briefly commenting on this proposition in the Discord. What is considered a "sound-effect" is ambiguous in of itself and places guesswork on a tagger or translator if what is written is of sufficient "substance" or not to warrant the use of the tag. I will list a few common scenarios below of posts that have been added to this tag, where I will walk through at least my thought process as a translator as to whether or not they should be tagged as such.

Scenario 1 - Audible Noises:
When the text is representing an audible noise.
post #2421237 - Posts like this fit the definition of what is considered a sound effect. The text is directly mimicking the noise of a camera shutter and I could logically see this post being in sound_effect_only_translation.
post #2199180 - Directly representing the noise of a fluid spraying out of a bottle. An SFX.

Scenario 2 - Action/Conduct Representations :
When the text is representing an action, be it passive or direct, that doesn't literally make noise.
post #2464110 - The text is representing the action of intently staring at something. Is the passive action of staring at something a "sound effect"? Well if we're assuming that any descriptive text that isn't spoken dialogue is a "sound effect" than I suppose it would, but is that how we operate?
post #2471407 - The text is representing the act of squeezing, in this case a hug. It's expressing the degree of the physical action of the embrace which is being denoted as tight due to the squeeze. Again if we're operating on that any non-spoken descriptive text like this is a "sound effect", than I suppose it would fit.
post #6582654 - This text is describing that the breasts of the female have, in the moments before this scene, jiggled or as the note describes, "boing"s. Usage like this isn't directly describing any noise of sorts but rather that of a movement of an element in the image. Again, non-dialogue descriptive text = sound effect, so I guess this gets the tag.
post #2415882 - This text is describing the act of the turret petting Erika's head. We're describing an action and its not dialogue, into the tag it goes.

Scenario 3 - "Spoken" Audible Noises:
When the text is directly and audibly uttered.
post #2446075 - Two people going Aaaaa into a fan. Is this a sound effect? Well...no? maybe? They're "speaking", so this is dialogue-ish, just not of much "substance". Would I put it in the tag? No this isn't a sound effect imo, I wouldn't and searchers who would utilize -sound_effect_only_translation to avoid this "low substance" translation would be irritated seeing such.
post #2323391 - A slightly disgusted girl vocally exclaiming "Haaah?". A sound effect? Well no? She's speaking. Is it significant enough to "fit" into translated? Why does that call need to be made?
post #2390777 - Same as above, audible noise used in situations where one wishes to be fed by another. Sound effect? No.
post #2420746 - Wan wan wan wan... Noises of dogs barking. An effect? Ehhh?

Scenario 4 - Mixtures Of Noise & Action:
When the text is mimicking an action and giving off a noise.
post #2431463 - Flandre eating some cake and the noise of "paku" is given off to represent the noted "bite". This one is not only describing the action of her placing food in her mouth, but also is mimicking a minor noise, akin to someone going "Aahmn" when going to eat something. Sound effect? Well, it is a sound and is describing an action at the same time. When does a sound stop being an effect? Now you might be going,
come you're being overly analytical, it's clearly a sound effect' which I could see defined as such, I merely wish to express to you that the uses of these are broad and can take place of spoken speech which creates a grey zone of when something is and isn't an effect. Like the following:
post #2147520 - Nya- Utilized for both the noise, and oft cat-like gestures. similarly post #2105431, no evidence of spoken noise, but there's a cat, so the artist used Nya- for cat-ly-ness. Is it an effect? Do we assume the cats audibly cried and consider it a noise, does that matter when we tag this? Uh I'm not sure. Again I'd like to emphasize this very hesitation to and understand the burden of having to make a judgement call on when something is and isn't an effect considered an effect.
post #2422498 - A flag flapping in the wind, giving off the noise of "pata pata" and representing its movement in presumably a breeze of sorts. Sound effect? I suppose so.
post #2325915 - Hawawa. The girl's potentially audible noise that is describing her flustered state. While possibly the actual noise of her attempting to speak or just vocally expressing her flustered-ness, it also could just inferred as non verbal and merely a descriptor of her embarrassed state. Which is it? I don't know. Do I need to know and just assume, well it's not dialogue so whatever, into the sound_effect_only_translation it goes? Again, I have to make this judgement call or just not care and pick one or the other.

I could go on adding more posts and categories but I think I've expressed that in some cases, there's black and white, yeah this post is just effects, and some that are well..., and as a tag to fundamentally require an individuals judgement to go well... is this an effect? is possibly just a mess waiting to need cleaning and frankly an annoyance I for one would dislike having to evaluate whether the substance in a post's notes are of enough "dialogue-y" merit to warrant utilizing this tag.
Even were we to alias to translated and have this an additional tag one could use as a minus search to weed these out, I'd point you toward the above entries where I went, "well..." and know that I and possibly other translators may not tag them as all the time and the users of such would probably still see these kinds of posts. Not to mention those who do not translate may use a translation as a basis for the decision as to which tag it would go in without actually knowing the original texts context that may or may not have weighed into such a choice. All in all, I again think this would just be a mess waiting to happen, and while I understand the desire for such separation, I don't believe there is a suitable tag for such as there's much gray area and at its core is based on an individuals judgement call as a tag. Thank for you reading.

Nagi35 said:

Scenario 2 - Action/Conduct Representations :
When the text is representing an action, be it passive or direct, that doesn't literally make noise.
post #2464110 - The text is representing the action of intently staring at something. Is the passive action of staring at something a "sound effect"? Well if we're assuming that any descriptive text that isn't spoken dialogue is a "sound effect" than I suppose it would, but is that how we operate?
post #2471407 - The text is representing the act of squeezing, in this case a hug. It's expressing the degree of the physical action of the embrace which is being denoted as tight due to the squeeze. Again if we're operating on that any non-spoken descriptive text like this is a "sound effect", than I suppose it would fit.
post #6582654 - This text is describing that the breasts of the female have, in the moments before this scene, jiggled or as the note describes, "boing"s. Usage like this isn't directly describing any noise of sorts but rather that of a movement of an element in the image. Again, non-dialogue descriptive text = sound effect, so I guess this gets the tag.
post #2415882 - This text is describing the act of the turret petting Erika's head. We're describing an action and its not dialogue, into the tag it goes.

These aren't "text representing actions", those are all translations of Japanese onomatopoeia. They are sound effects by definition, because they are the sounds those actions make (even if logically none of them actually make noise). Jiii, giyu, purun, and nade nade, the sound for staring, squeezing/hugging, jiggling (like jelly), and petting, respectively.

blindVigil said:

These aren't "text representing actions", those are all translations of Japanese onomatopoeia. They are sound effects by definition, because they are the sounds those actions make (even if logically none of them actually make noise). Jiii, giyu, purun, and nade nade, the sound for staring, squeezing/hugging, jiggling (like jelly), and petting, respectively.

Well, yes they are onomatopoeia in that they are imitative sounds for actions. Yes they are "sound effects" in Japanese and as I concluded, would tag them as such as they are 'non dialogue'. I worded it in contrast to the previous category where the above were the direct representations of the noises in the posts, where as the ones in that category weren't one for one mimicking of the noise if that makes sense. I suppose one could argue 'well they're onomatopoeia for those actions, so yes they 1-1 mimic it' and I guess I could see it from such an angle too if it were painted that way.

BUR #19085 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

nuke sound_effect_only_translation

This tag is useless and was created without discussion. It's almost completely overlapping with sound effects only.

"I want to search for posts with sound effects only that are translated" -> sound_effects_only translated, and I really find it hard to believe that someone would want to search for this. Maybe, MAYBE it has an utility to filter out posts from translated, but it will never be populated to a degree where it'll be useful. We'll probably end up nuking sound effects only in a few months or years when we realize it's yet another abandoned pet project.
"I want to search for posts missing translation that only have sound effects translated" No you don't. You can use partially_translated to search for partially translated posts. Any further granularity is being forced only for its own sake, it has no utility when searching. Nobody is searching for something like this when translating.

pronebone said:

Sort of beside the point but, something like sound effect translation request might be nice for when someone changes a translated post to translation request because they don't know the ones that are untranslated are sound effects/moans or they want to know what those sound effects actually say.

That honestly just sounds like a tag ripe for people to just stick it on anything that's untranslated or partially translated. If someone doesn't know it's just sound effects, then they'll either not use it or overuse it, requiring someone else, probably a translator, to either add it where it's missing (and then not translate it?), or remove it. Translation request has already been criticized multiple times for being virtually useless, we don't need a translation request 2.0.

blindVigil said:

That honestly just sounds like a tag ripe for people to just stick it on anything that's untranslated or partially translated. If someone doesn't know it's just sound effects, then they'll either not use it or overuse it, requiring someone else, probably a translator, to either add it where it's missing (and then not translate it?), or remove it. Translation request has already been criticized multiple times for being virtually useless, we don't need a translation request 2.0.

Yes, that's why I've said 'something like', I'm open to any suggestions about it but I've observed that it might a problem for some to not have it. Personally on a larger scope, having a tag for anything related to the translation, commentary, annotation or sound effects etc., is cumbersome on the eyes on some posts so I'd rather have a field that tells about the status of the image without using tags like:
Translation: Annotated, Post Translated, Commentary Request
Translation: Post Translated, Sound Effects Request
Translation: N/A (when not specified)

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