Potential Ado song implications

BUR #22263 has been rejected.

So aside from that this is mostly how it's being used already, I *think* the situation here is diferent from topic #24634, since Cloud Nine Inc is the actual agency, so having the songs fall under the agency (quite literally, as of forum #264360) would make sense in my mind.

While utaite vs vocal synth songs' situation is a little different, a similar BUR for Pinocchio-P's songs in forum #220423 got rejected.

That being said, I do support it as long as it's consistently applied for other musicians too.

BUR #22951 has been rejected.

create implication chocolat_cadabra_(ado) -> cloud_nine_inc

New song, but I'm keeping this separate, because it's a collaboration between Ado, Lotte, songwriters, animators, etc. (see https://twitter.com/ado_staff/status/1752649556070920310), so I'm unsure if implying just Ado's agency (or anything at all) is the right approach.

I think song -> company/agency/series implications are usually discouraged because you don't want them to end up on posts with a song reference that has nothing to do with the company, like random vtuber cover arts or another official version featuring different singers.
For instance your implications will group post #5263172, post #6252422, post #4949339 and post #5214775 under Cloud Nine Inc, that's nonsense.

magcolo said:

I think song -> company/agency/series implications are usually discouraged because you don't want them to end up on posts with a song reference that has nothing to do with the company, like random vtuber cover arts or another official version featuring different singers.
For instance your implications will group post #5263172, post #6252422, post #4949339 and post #5214775 under Cloud Nine Inc, that's nonsense.

I think the potential logic explained in forum #223913 makes sense, the company/agency/whatever would serve as an umbrella tag for those songs, instead of being a tag purely for something directly relating to the company. I can see how it may not be desirable depending on what you deem the intent of tagging the company, but that probably differs from person to person. For example, I personally wouldn't mind those example post you gave showing up under cloud_nine_inc.

岩戸鈴芽 said:

I think the potential logic explained in forum #223913 makes sense, the company/agency/whatever would serve as an umbrella tag for those songs, instead of being a tag purely for something directly relating to the company. I can see how it may not be desirable depending on what you deem the intent of tagging the company, but that probably differs from person to person. For example, I personally wouldn't mind those example post you gave showing up under cloud_nine_inc.

The situation differs from what NNT was saying, indie music circles or bands tend to work alone most of the time. Here, as you said, some (or all, actually) of these song don't solely belong to Ado. You're hesitant about your second BUR because it's a collaboration. That's confusing, you're making it sounds like you don't know that a lot of the song in the first BUR are also collaborations. Anyway, as long as Ado doesn't write her songs herself, it would be a collaboration in some way.

If we follow that logic, we should implicate them to not only Ado's agency but also the composer, arranger, lyricist etc. You request it for Ado because you're her fan. Nobody cares about the songwriters huh. Well, depends if you promote yourself. Some of the producers she worked with are very successful as independent producers. While others don't make their names acknowledged after working in the industry for 15 years. Who gets to decide which producers are or aren't famous enough and deserves a tag? What is well-known for a casual and a hardcore is definitely not the same thing.

You can see how it quickly falls apart.

@岩戸鈴芽 Do you actually search for Cloud Nine Inc? What are you looking for when you do, if you do? Alternatively, if someone blacklisted that tag, what would they be trying to avoid? I can't think of a reason for either.

The way it looks to me, a post like post #6978642 which actually references and personifies Cloud Nine Inc is more or less unsearchable if the company is tagged every time one of its talents appears. Ironically that post is right now the only result for ado_(utaite) ~yoshino_(utaite) ~jakusansei_(utaite) that doesn't have the company_connection tag.

As far as bias for singers over everyone else involved... I hope I'm not misunderstanding, but I don't think that's the issue. Using Odo for an example, I'm an Ado fan, but I'm also a Giga-P fan and I know he was a composer on Odo. But we're tagging images, not music. I'd tag Giga if his bear avatar showed up, but as far as I know it hasn't. Sure, singers are more popular in general, and that's reflected in artwork, but that's not up to us. Odo's unnamed character (sometimes called Odori but I've never seen a source for that) is understood to represent Ado, and other people's covers of it mostly use visually distinct characters in a similar outfit. So Ado gets tagged because she got drawn. If it's a drawing of someone else, she doesn't get tagged. (If we want to decide that representative characters from Ado songs don't count as Ado, that would be a separate topic, but the currently existing implications indicate they do.)

To me the only question is: Does every image referencing Odo (for example) also reference Cloud Nine Inc? Well, definitely not, IMO. Cloud Nine Inc is... the company that currently employs the original singer of the song. If that's not canon tagging I don't know what is, and per howto:tag we tag what the image shows, not what we know about the characters in it.

It's already dubious enough tagging Ado's current employer in every picture of her, because it seems unlikely to me that the artist or the viewer would have the company in mind. TBH I've never really liked the tag, but since every post is supposed to have a copyright tag (I've never truly understood why?) and I don't have a better one... I guess it's fine at least for posts of just Chando. I would not tag it where a song copyright applies, but I also don't see it causing real harm so I don't remove it and don't mind adding it if it's useful for something that way.

I do think it's a useful tag for company connection posts, because there it provides context. I don't usually pay attention to agencies, so the tag on this site is how I learned that Ado and Yoshino shared an agency, and several images with the two of them would make less sense without that context.

Super_Affection said:

To me the only question is: Does every image referencing Odo (for example) also reference Cloud Nine Inc? Well, definitely not, IMO. Cloud Nine Inc is... the company that currently employs the original singer of the song. If that's not canon tagging I don't know what is, and per howto:tag we tag what the image shows, not what we know about the characters in it.

...

I would not tag it where a song copyright applies, but I also don't see it causing real harm so I don't remove it and don't mind adding it if it's useful for something that way.

That's a fair point, actually. However, at the same time I'd argue that a song released by someone while they were operating under a specific agency usually does tie that song to the agency itself to some degree. I do think not tagging the company, especially when it's not an artwork for a cover or something, feels a bit off.

It's already dubious enough tagging Ado's current employer in every picture of her, because it seems unlikely to me that the artist or the viewer would have the company in mind. TBH I've never really liked the tag, but since every post is supposed to have a copyright tag (I've never truly understood why?) and I don't have a better one... I guess it's fine at least for posts of just Chando.

This basically stems from the complete mess that was the tagging before this, where it was a mix of real life, original and probably some other people came up with as well, and that probably in part stems from the need for a copyright tag at all, like you described. However, this is definitely not unique, and, for example, vtubers are often tagged under their current company (and this causes problems when they move companies while keeping the same design).

Like I said in my previous reply, personally I would actually not mind seeing parodies, covers, etc. when searching under the main tag, but if that causes (or has a reasonable potential to cause) oddities in tagging then it can't be helped.

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The bulk update request #22263 (forum #264376) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

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The bulk update request #22951 (forum #267337) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.