Undertale/Deltarune tagging inquiries

1. is it worth creating a tag for the red soul seen in deltarune (and by proxy, undertale)?

[CH4 SPOILERS] we now have direct proof the red soul isn't kris. you can control it independently. it's been implied earlier, but this confirms it
could be a character tag or a general one. human_soul, heart_soul, etc.
if it's not shared between games, maybe soul_(deltarune), but that could be a useless abstraction if undertale ends up using the same tag.
existing general tags like heart are too vague

see:
post #9440465
post #9432544
post #9288184
post #9432689
post #9443626
post #9423403
these show the red soul as an entity with its own will or central visual subject.

see also:
post #9421630
post #9204630
post #3228627
undertale fanart treats the soul as a known in-game asset. pixel icon, rainbow variants, gameplay object & not just a visual metaphor

2. suggestion: create alt character tags for dark world outfits of kris, susie, noelle, berdly

equivalent to kaname_madoka vs kaname_madoka_(magical_girl) or phantom thief outfit tags

kris_(dark_world)_(deltarune) -> kris_(deltarune)
susie_(dark_world)_(deltarune) -> susie_(deltarune)
berdly_(dark_world)_(deltarune) -> berdly_(deltarune)
noelle_holiday_(dark_world) -> noelle_holiday

i’ll help with application if the tags are OK to go

3. suggestion: create aliased character tags for deltarune versions of undertale characters when they differ meaningfully

not needed for characters like sans or onionsan but some differ heavily, e.g.
asriel_dreemurr is a dead child
asriel (deltarune) is a living adult in college with a new childhood, and kris's brother
see: post #9443611, post #7894569, post #9267524

asriel_dreemurr_(deltarune) -> asriel_dreemurr?

[CH3 SPOILERS] police form undyne is nearly killed by a deltarune-exclusive character, so she might qualify too

4. request: tag for asriel's god of hyperdeath boss form at the end of the true pacifist route

context: spamton's neo boss form in ch2 has a tag. mettaton_neo, undyne_the_undying are also distinct boss forms and have tags
tag name asriel_dreemurr_(god_of_hyperdeath)?


let me know if there's any issues otherwise i will help populate any new tags created ^_^ thank you

Alright, fair warning, I'm still catching up with the new Deltarune update currently imploding my offbooru online circles. Until I can comfortably remove "deltarune spoilers" from my blacklist, I'm gonna need further input from someone fully caught up, as right now I'm only up to 3.

Phantasmogorie said:

1. is it worth creating a tag for the red soul seen in deltarune (and by proxy, undertale)?

could be a character tag or a general one. human_soul, heart_soul, etc.
if it's not shared between games, maybe soul_(deltarune), but that could be a useless abstraction if undertale ends up using the same tag.
existing general tags like heart are too vague

see:
post #9440465
post #9432544
post #9288184
post #9432689
post #9443626
post #9423403
these show the red soul as an entity with its own will or central visual subject.

see also:
post #9421630
post #9204630
post #3228627
undertale fanart treats the soul as a known in-game asset. pixel icon, rainbow variants, gameplay object & not just a visual metaphor

Hm...I wouldn't be against a tag for the Deltarune version at least, as even without knowing the full Chapter 4 context it's pretty clear the player and Kris are two separate entities. I certainly feel like this would be something people would want to search for.

The problem here is, well as you point out, Undertale uses the exact same heart to represent a similar (if not exact?) concept. And unfortunately, I don't have a great solution right now. And I'll get to that...

2. suggestion: create alt character tags for dark world outfits of kris, susie, noelle, berdly

equivalent to kaname_madoka vs kaname_madoka_(magical_girl) or phantom thief outfit tags

kris_(dark_world)_(deltarune) -> kris_(deltarune)
susie_(dark_world)_(deltarune) -> susie_(deltarune)
berdly_(dark_world)_(deltarune) -> berdly_(deltarune)
noelle_holiday_(dark_world) -> noelle_holiday

i’ll help with application if the tags are OK to go

Putting aside my grumbling over the existence of the Kaname Madoka (magical girl) tag existing for a moment, generally speaking we don't tag the default forms of characters, as it's assume they're the default in searches. Ideally, it should take me only two tags to search either of the two forms.

But, here's the thing about the Deltarune characters. You cannot easily replicate this sort of basic two tag search with any of them, as even if I were to use a search like "susie (deltarune) -black jacket" to specifically see pictures of her normal form, I'd still get the alternate costumes from Chapter 3 or any pics of her Dark World form not tagged black jacket (including but not limited to greyscale images like post #9430174 where you wouldn't tag black jacket anyway).

With this in mind, I'd personally be okay with these tags existing, especially with the Chapter 3 official alternate costumes further muddling the waters for Kris and Susie especially. That way, it's much easier to see or exclude one main form over the other.

3. suggestion: create aliased character tags for deltarune versions of undertale characters when they differ meaningfully

not needed for characters like sans or onionsan but some differ heavily, e.g.
asriel_dreemurr is a dead child
asriel (deltarune) is a living adult in college with a new childhood, and kris's brother
see: post #9443611, post #7894569, post #9267524

asriel_dreemurr_(deltarune) -> asriel_dreemurr?

[CH3 SPOILERS] police form undyne is nearly killed by a deltarune-exclusive character, so she might qualify too

You see, right now we tag so that Undertale and Deltarune are treated as separate copyrights despite having quite a few characters shared between them. Any attempt to create a soul tag or even implicate the Deltarune forms of characters to their Undertale counterparts will essentially force us to acknowledge these two games are connected, and honestly I have no idea how'd we do that besides umbrellaing the tags under a shared copytag, and I have no idea what that tag would be. So any attempt to do something of this nature would inevitably open this can of worms we'd then have to figure out what to do with. And I don't got any good ideas on my own about what to do here.

4. request: tag for asriel's god of hyperdeath boss form at the end of the true pacifist route

context: spamton's neo boss form in ch2 has a tag. mettaton_neo, undyne_the_undying are also distinct boss forms and have tags
tag name asriel_dreemurr_(god_of_hyperdeath)?

Yes, I'd be okay with this. Undertale is old enough for this potential tag to not cause any issues (as images that would've been tagged spoilers in 2015 don't really get tagged as such in 2025). Add in the fact this form is really hard to search for, and well, there you go.

let me know if there's any issues otherwise i will help populate any new tags created ^_^ thank you

This was a lengthy response written by someone only starting to get back into these games, but I really appreciate the effort to try and untangle these messy messy tags. I think we gotta solve the hard copyright situation first before coming back to points 1 and 3, but while further input from others wouldn't hurt, I got no issues with points 2 and 4 at the moment and honestly want to say "go ahead".

Knowledge_Seeker said:

The problem here is, well as you point out, Undertale uses the exact same heart to represent a similar (if not exact?) concept. And unfortunately, I don't have a great solution right now. And I'll get to that...

I do believe it is, in fact, the exact same concept, with Frisk and Kris responding differently to its presence, so that seems like it'd necessarily require a tag covering both. The only thing I can think of for the two-use issue is using a similar solution to Twitter logo and Twitter Bird - two tags for the heart when it is more abstact and for when it is an entity in the image, but that would still require thinking of a naming convention that'd make sense for both copyrights, as well as resolving the copytag issue raised.

...honestly I have no idea how'd we do that besides umbrellaing the tags under a shared copytag, and I have no idea what that tag would be. So any attempt to do something of this nature would inevitably open this can of worms we'd then have to figure out what to do with. And I don't got any good ideas on my own about what to do here.

The only two things I can comment are this: firstly, a joke, using a random anagram of UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE as the parent tag, like UNRELATED, TUNDRAEEL, ALERTNUDE, or NUTDEALER; secondly, whatever actual name for the tag we think of I think it's inevitably going to feature toby_fox in it, whether it be as a qualifier ala *_(toby_fox), prefacing it ala toby_fox's_*, or something silly like the_video_games_made_by_toby_""don't_call_me_radiation"_radiation"_fox.

Keeping to the topic of the thread, Phantasmogorie, one of the tags you made as part of your efforts is Weird Route (Deltarune). While I'm not about to pass judgement on whether that tag should exist or not, I will point out the fact that there has been no tag made for Undertale's Genocide Route, which could impact the tag's existence depending on how folks argue about it. All of this to say, are you also going to make a Genocide Route tag?

Damian0358 said:

The only two things I can comment are this: firstly, a joke, using a random anagram of UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE as the parent tag, like UNRELATED, TUNDRAEEL, ALERTNUDE, or NUTDEALER; secondly, whatever actual name for the tag we think of I think it's inevitably going to feature toby_fox in it, whether it be as a qualifier ala *_(toby_fox), prefacing it ala toby_fox's_*, or something silly like the_video_games_made_by_toby_""don't_call_me_radiation"_radiation"_fox.

annoying_dog_chronicles, homestuck_expanded_universe, the_cooler_hiveswap

Damian0358 said:

I do believe it is, in fact, the exact same concept, with Frisk and Kris responding differently to its presence, so that seems like it'd necessarily require a tag covering both. The only thing I can think of for the two-use issue is using a similar solution to Twitter logo and Twitter Bird - two tags for the heart when it is more abstact and for when it is an entity in the image, but that would still require thinking of a naming convention that'd make sense for both copyrights, as well as resolving the copytag issue raised.

I was leaning more towards "exact same" myself, but like I said, not fully caught up yet and the last thing I need is to find out the soul rules from Undertale have been thrown right out the window in Chapter 4 of Deltarune in the midst of a Danbooru tagging conversation lol. But more seriously, I think even if we could tag the concept separately for both, it'd be a cold day in hell trying to enforce that. So if we really want a tag for the souls as seen in these games (a tag that sounds like it's becoming more and more pressing to make to me), we'd need to solve the copytag situation first. Otherwise, I'd have no issue with the concept.

The only two things I can comment are this: firstly, a joke, using a random anagram of UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE as the parent tag, like UNRELATED, TUNDRAEEL, ALERTNUDE, or NUTDEALER; secondly, whatever actual name for the tag we think of I think it's inevitably going to feature toby_fox in it, whether it be as a qualifier ala *_(toby_fox), prefacing it ala toby_fox's_*, or something silly like the_video_games_made_by_toby_""don't_call_me_radiation"_radiation"_fox.

Yeah. As funny as it'd be to me to have "UNRELATED" as the parent tag, I don't think it'd be good tagging practice on a site like this overall to have it set to that. The only thing I thought up in the meantime is something as generic as Toby Fox Games or Toby Foxverse, which A: proves your point exactly, and B: both these suggestions just kinda...Don't do the games justice, I guess? I don't really know. I want something a bit more in the vibe Undertale and Deltarune, while also not being horrendously obscure to people outside the loop of these games. Assuming we even go with this hypothetical solution to the problem to begin with.

Also, this is the exact conversation that made me realize "Deltarune" is itself a fucking anagram of "Undertale". Or would "Undertale" be the anagram? God fucking damn it, Toby. Never change.

Keeping to the topic of the thread, Phantasmogorie, one of the tags you made as part of your efforts is Weird Route (Deltarune). While I'm not about to pass judgement on whether that tag should exist or not, I will point out the fact that there has been no tag made for Undertale's Genocide Route, which could impact the tag's existence depending on how folks argue about it. All of this to say, are you also going to make a Genocide Route tag?

I'm not gonna say too much on these for the sake of avoiding derailing discussion, but I will say I have noticed the Weird Route (Deltarune) tag, and personally wouldn't mind a hypothetical Genocide Route (Undertale) tag myself, as these both have a specific horrifying "off the rails" vibe to them I can see fans of either wanting to see specifically or avoid.

Knowledge_Seeker said:

Alright, fair warning, I'm still catching up with the new Deltarune update currently imploding my offbooru online circles. Until I can comfortably remove "deltarune spoilers" from my blacklist, I'm gonna need further input from someone fully caught up, as right now I'm only up to 3.

thank you for your detailed writeup nonetheless! ^_^

Knowledge_Seeker said:
Putting aside my grumbling over the existence of the Kaname Madoka (magical girl) tag existing for a moment, generally speaking we don't tag the default forms of characters, as it's assume they're the default in searches. Ideally, it should take me only two tags to search either of the two forms.

But, here's the thing about the Deltarune characters. You cannot easily replicate this sort of basic two tag search with any of them, as even if I were to use a search like "susie (deltarune) -black jacket" to specifically see pictures of her normal form, I'd still get the alternate costumes from Chapter 3 or any pics of her Dark World form not tagged black jacket (including but not limited to greyscale images like post #9430174 where you wouldn't tag black jacket anyway).

With this in mind, I'd personally be okay with these tags existing, especially with the Chapter 3 official alternate costumes further muddling the waters for Kris and Susie especially. That way, it's much easier to see or exclude one main form over the other.

yeah i was wary of this given how the outfits in deltarune are used interchangeably in official art but with susie especially it's pretty difficult to get solely darkworld/overworld outfits. for characters like noelle it's easy since it's just noelle_holiday white_robe but otherwise it's a bit tricky

You see, right now we tag so that Undertale and Deltarune are treated as separate copyrights despite having quite a few characters shared between them. Any attempt to create a soul tag or even implicate the Deltarune forms of characters to their Undertale counterparts will essentially force us to acknowledge these two games are connected, and honestly I have no idea how'd we do that besides umbrellaing the tags under a shared copytag, and I have no idea what that tag would be. So any attempt to do something of this nature would inevitably open this can of worms we'd then have to figure out what to do with. And I don't got any good ideas on my own about what to do here.

agree for sure. while i think the changes are somewhat significant (especially if they continue with any potential deltarune-exclusive scenes) i also am fine with the lack of it

I really appreciate the effort to try and untangle these messy messy tags. I think we gotta solve the hard copyright situation first before coming back to points 1 and 3, but while further input from others wouldn't hurt, I got no issues with points 2 and 4 at the moment and honestly want to say "go ahead".

no problem! i hope you enjoy your playthrough of deltarune! i'll make and populate the tags when i'm not on mobile :)

Damian0358 said:

Keeping to the topic of the thread, Phantasmogorie, one of the tags you made as part of your efforts is Weird Route (Deltarune). While I'm not about to pass judgement on whether that tag should exist or not, I will point out the fact that there has been no tag made for Undertale's Genocide Route, which could impact the tag's existence depending on how folks argue about it. All of this to say, are you also going to make a Genocide Route tag?

i actually didn't create the tag nor populate it, i just wrote the wiki page lol. but i get the on-the-fenceness about the existence... there's a good amount of new weird route scenes that could be nice to sort for, and maybe if you want to blacklist it like you said.

i think a genocide route tag might be okay...? it might be hard and cumbersome though given that 65% of chara's fanart would implicate that (their only in-game scene is at the very end) and it'd be hard to tell what applies vs what doesn't. like a fight, or a specific piece of dialogue, or a reference? or is it just any pic of chara and sans together? who knows

i wouldn't mind a genocide tag but i don't think it's needed. if one does get made though i'd be happy to help out

regarding the undertale deltarune shared tag, that's my main concern too. franchises like project moon use the studio name, so i don't think it'd be too off kilter to use 'toby fox', but it just doesn't sound good lmao. apparently the official wikipedia page listing the characters uses "undertale and deltarune" but still not really clean

BUR #42590 is pending approval.

create implication kris_(dark_world)_(deltarune) -> kris_(deltarune)
create implication susie_(dark_world)_(deltarune) -> susie_(deltarune)
create implication noelle_holiday_(dark_world) -> noelle_holiday
create implication berdly_(dark_world)_(deltarune) -> berdly_(deltarune)
create implication asriel_dreemurr_(god_of_hyperdeath) -> asriel_dreemurr

dark world outfits like how the magical girl tags do it. and asriel's boss form to match undyne the undying & mettaton neo