Danbooru

Collection pools becoming subjective tags

Posted under General

The more I think about it, the more I see this needs to be addressed. The more I see it discussed, the more I see this needs it's own topic.

As I said in forum #85329, outside the UI discussion, but related to it, the problem of excessive pools needs to be addressed, not by albert, but by us, the community, and we can start now. This is what I want to discuss.

(For newer members:) Wiki pages like squeezable and related old forum threads show us that these collections pools used to be subjective tags and the community decided they should be moved to pools. I think there were probably far fewer subjective tags then than there are now, but I think it's become clear that this was a mistake.

I think we should, right now, start moving all these collections and non-ordered pools to temporary tags. We put a qualifier on them, like pool_ or collection_ so that when albert and/or jxh has time, they can easily implement a 4th tag type and mass-move the tags. e.g.

Most of the work here won't be the technical, it'll be finding and deciding what has to be moved and deleted. We might not even need the temporary qualifier, but we do need to gather a list all in one place. We're either going to have an annoying number of pools cluttering the top/bottom of the screen to moderate or an annoying number of tags cluttering up the bottom corner to moderate.

Updated by anon153

Can we start turning these into tags and deleting the pools now, then? I forget what levels have mass-editing privileges. Not that I want to rush things before the forum has has a few days to discuss it, of course.

Edit: Related: forum #85334

Updated

Turning image collection pools into tags is a huge, huge change and we really should not rush it.

Give this topic some time before making any changes. I think we should wait for some Mods and preferably also jxh2154 to voice their opinion.

Hey, I remember making this suggestion a couple years ago or so. I recall it got a lot of push-back then, too; even as people acknowledge that the semantic difference between them is obvious. Maybe it'll get more traction now that we've got tags segregated by type already in-place and people understand how it works.

One problem with turning those pools into tags is that its much harder for users to keep track of frivolous additions and deletions (more likely to be a problem with something subjective). You can see the history for a pool, but you can't for an individual tag. Being able to see the history of an individual tag has been one of my most desired features for a long time now (I'm hoping it's a possibility with Danbooru 2).

Hadn't thought considered the moderation side of it. Who's adding what is already in the database, and available in upload history pages, so it should be possible to add a list of "what was last added to this tag", similar to the wiki history changes; perhaps it should go where that list is on that tag's wiki page.

It shouldn't add too much strain, it's just keeping another list per tag (which gets deleted with the wiki page/tag) and it's only one more database operation per tag edit. However, going back through the database to generate those lists would need another weekend in read-only mode. Unless leaving it be to naturally fill up is acceptable and we don't care for the option to see the whole history of a ta- no that can't be left out. Another weekend in read-only mode it is.

Whatever the casse, it feels like we're getting to the root of danbooru 1's old problems, and so long as this is carried through, I'm willing to call the upgrade a success (though I haven't seen the code).

EB said:

One problem with turning those pools into tags is that its much harder for users to keep track of frivolous additions and deletions (more likely to be a problem with something subjective). You can see the history for a pool, but you can't for an individual tag. Being able to see the history of an individual tag has been one of my most desired features for a long time now (I'm hoping it's a possibility with Danbooru 2).

This is a legitimate concern. I doubt Albert will add history for individual tags because it'll be heavy on the database. However, if the Collection tag type alone can have their history then it shouldn't be a problem and everything will be solved. I.e. we make it into a hybrid of pool and tag.

Really we shouldn't do this. Its MUCH easier to kill a frivolous pool than kill a bad tag.

Also it'll make it MUCH harder to find the collections as right now its very easy to find and access/add and remove from them.

Why are we changing this again? It really seems pointless.

I see zero benefit in moving pools to tags, it creates more problems than it solves and flies in the face of longstanding policy.

We may as well resurrect cute, sexy, and every other horrible banned subjective tag while we're at it.

Keep in mind that it's not really necessary to change pool into tags. If we just add types to pools, it will technically be possible to configure their position by type. e.g. move collections below the tags and story pools above/below the image. It's one column database-wise and a few dozens of code lines.

Given how well it's gone for others, I'm only going to bother with you once; you're becoming a nuisance who only tries to force his opinion no mind for proper discourse.

"It's MUCH easier to kill a frivolous pool than kill a bad tag."
It's just as easy to nuke a tag as it is a pool. It's a little more convenient to undelete a pool than a tag, but that's only of concern to the mods that do the deleting and undeleting. You can't browse deleted tags whereas levels above member can browse deleted pools, but again, this isn't really a concern.

"It will become MUCH harder to find the collections as right now."
It's no harder to find pools than it is tags. In fact it's easier because tags also have the wiki pages that can be found from related wiki pages, but even without that, there's an index for each:

Note that currently there is no way to find "proper pools"; sequential comics without collections cluttering up the search. They're not even labelled "Collection - Badass" at the moment, so even if you're right, the current system makes it harder to find not-collections than it should.

Log said:

I see zero benefit in moving pools to tags, it creates more problems than it solves and flies in the face of longstanding policy.

We may as well resurrect cute, sexy, and every other horrible banned subjective tag while we're at it.

We already have enough headaches with "Large Breasts" "Huge Breasts" "Gigantic Breasts" and the tag wars there. Making MORE subjective tags will just be counterproductive as hell.

I mean the pools about collection I'd be fine seeing nuked over them being made tags. Marking them as Collection: X works but making them tags. Just no.

Log said:

I see zero benefit in moving pools to tags, it creates more problems than it solves and flies in the face of longstanding policy.

We may as well resurrect cute, sexy, and every other horrible banned subjective tag while we're at it.

Collection pools are subjective tags; they do the same job. How is it not already against policy (if in spirit if not in the letter of "subjective tag")? Pools like "heart-warming" and "heart-breaking" also cause problems with spoiling the upload sometimes.

And what are these problem's it's going to cause? (Other than maybe another weekend of downtime)

I think this is going a bit too far so I'll say it directly.

Zelinkokitsune, please shut up. You have already showed that you're not even trying to contribute to the discussion, so at least don't hinder others.

Also, breast size tags are not subjective and you would know it if you bothered to read the wiki.

Edit: To think about it, this message isn't very useful either so I'll just stop here.

Updated

Zelinkokitsune said:

Also the only person pushing for this is you.

I also want to see this happen.

Not necessarily right this moment, as we're still getting used to Danbooru 2 and having bugs fixed; it will be a lot of work.
But I do think it should happen.

Type-kun said:

Keep in mind that it's not really necessary to change pool into tags. If we just add types to pools, it will technically be possible to configure their position by type. e.g. move collections below the tags and story pools above/below the image. It's one column database-wise and a few dozens of code lines.

This is what I had in mind. Please read the old thread if you haven't already.

Yes let's just endlessly clutter up an already cluttered up UI with more pointless tags.

Just leave them as pools prefixed with collection and call it a day... OR not change ANYTHING.

I know its hard to not want to go and make pointless and utter counterproductive changes with Danbooru 2 but come on people you can resist the urge!

Zelinkokitsune said:

Yes let's just endlessly clutter up an already cluttered up UI with more pointless tags.

Just leave them as pools prefixed with collection and call it a day... OR not change ANYTHING.

I know its hard to not want to go and make pointless and utter counterproductive changes with Danbooru 2 but come on people you can resist the urge!

That kind of attitude isn't helping anything.

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