I always wonder why touhou fandom believes that Marisa is very weak and can be easily defeated come on! She was fighting one on one with Shinki and Yuuka before the spell card rules!!.
Ilosia said: Even ignoring the fact that pc-98 is pre continuity reboot, Reimu's endings are the ones considered canon.
I happen to disagree on this one,I agree with Touhou wiki that the question of which characters resolved the incident is very ambiguous. Many fans assume that Ending #1 in all games is what actually happened (although there is no proof to this other than the numbering), but if this is the case, then you are right and Reimu has won all of her fights except one, against Suika in Immaterial and Missing Power. But if this is the case the Grimoire of Marisa shouldn't have the spellcards of Mokou,Flandre Koishi or Yukari.
I believe the whole "Marisa is weak" comes come the fact that Marisa is actually one of the most normal characters in the series. She wasn't born in some magnificent family like Reimu. She wasn't born with powers or anything like that. Shes just a normal magician, a strong one, but still just a Human Magician. So take away her magic and/or make her unable to cast magic and bam, weak character. Reimu and Sakuya are human too, but think about what they can do compared to Marisa, all Marisa has is brute force.
Tetsamaru you are right in that one I won't deny it but you forgot to add that she also has an insane dodging skill but the thing that made my blood boil was that Marisa was defeated by 4 miserables bullets from behind! anyone who has played with Marisa even in easy mode would be able to dodge that in their sleep!...Sorry for the long rant but this just crossed the line for me.
Mind: 1) We're not seeing the entire duel. 2) The question here isn't that "Marisa is weak". It's that "Sakuya is strong". 3) They're playing with a less formal spellcard rule (many artists like to blur the line between duel and not duel). It can be that Sakuya simply ambushed Marisa. 4) This leads to Marisa tied to a chair, therefore it's the best possible result.
aselus1111 said: I happen to disagree on this one,I agree with Touhou wiki that the question of which characters resolved the incident is very ambiguous. Many fans assume that Ending #1 in all games is what actually happened (although there is no proof to this other than the numbering), but if this is the case, then you are right and Reimu has won all of her fights except one, against Suika in Immaterial and Missing Power. But if this is the case the Grimoire of Marisa shouldn't have the spellcards of Mokou,Flandre Koishi or Yukari.
Reimu's endings have always been canon outside of IaMP and SWR/Hisoutensoku. The fan community (and by extention, the wiki) just clings to the idea that "if it isn't explicitly stated, anything goes". Heck, I've seen people argue that Marisa solved ALL the incidents since Aya discounts Reimu's claims in Bohemian Archive.
MMaestro said: Reimu's endings have always been canon outside of IaMP and SWR/Hisoutensoku. The fan community (and by extention, the wiki) just clings to the idea that "if it isn't explicitly stated, anything goes". Heck, I've seen people argue that Marisa solved ALL the incidents since Aya discounts Reimu's claims in Bohemian Archive.
Well it's either that or Zun really likes to see the fandom argue with each other like idiots, wait a second...
MMaestro said: Reimu's endings have always been canon outside of IaMP and SWR/Hisoutensoku. The fan community (and by extention, the wiki) just clings to the idea that "if it isn't explicitly stated, anything goes". Heck, I've seen people argue that Marisa solved ALL the incidents since Aya discounts Reimu's claims in Bohemian Archive.
I don't know about most of the endings, but Marisa ending in UFO is the canon one, so...you're wrong.
Zaku_Zelo said: I don't know about most of the endings, but Marisa ending in UFO is the canon one, so...you're wrong.
Except Marisa A's ending is completely debunked since the ship is turned into a temple therefore denying Marisa her free rides to Makai, and ending B is just an explanation to the Extra story (which isn't saying much). Put up some evidence, otherwise you're wrong.
No offense but I think some of you guys are taking this kinda too serious. For the Sankt Kaiser's sake it's a doujin that connects Touhou with Jojo's Bizzare Adventure (granted it's been done before and Sakuya is based on Dio, skillwise, so in terms of making a crossover work, connecting the two would be easy and for the most part jive with each other without stepping on the other's canon) Also, besides, Marisa is a glass cannon witch. NOW if she had the Magic Knight subclass, we'll be talking a whole new ball game here.
MMaestro said: Except Marisa A's ending is completely debunked since the ship is turned into a temple therefore denying Marisa her free rides to Makai, and ending B is just an explanation to the Extra story (which isn't saying much). Put up some evidence, otherwise you're wrong.
Ending B was what I was talking about. It's the only ending that leads too the extra stage, which is canon, and is therefor canon itself. Also, what evidence do you have for Reimu's endings being the canon ones?
Zaku_Zelo said: Ending B was what I was talking about. It's the only ending that leads too the extra stage, which is canon, and is therefor canon itself. Also, what evidence do you have for Reimu's endings being the canon ones?
None of Reimu's EoSD, PCB, or IN endings directly led to the extra stage but Zun (heavily implies) that Reimu's ending is the canon ending in those games.
My only evidence is Bohemian Archive and Seasonal Dream Vision. And if I'm allowed to stretch it, OSP and WaHH since MoF, SA and UFO characters make cameos at the Hakurei Shrine which would imply that the youkai of each game and Reimu recognizes each other enough to not shoot on sight.
I believe ZUN did say all incidences are considered to be beaten by Reimu when it comes to talking about continuity. The other stories are, then, "what if Reimu doesn't" stories.
Except, I read somewhere that according to ZUN that trend is no longer followed, and incidences are left unresolved or resolved by themselves. The proof to this is said to be Meiling's monologue in Hisotensoku arcade mode and ZUN's comments in the Ten Desires music room. I don't have the clear picture about it though.
We know that TH06 to TH08 were indeed resolved, so this new trend of the incidences being unresolved could have started as early as TH09.
Lick_King said: I believe ZUN did say all incidences are considered to be beaten by Reimu when it comes to talking about continuity. The other stories are, then, "what if Reimu doesn't" stories.
Except, I read somewhere that according to ZUN that trend is no longer followed, and incidences are left unresolved or resolved by themselves. The proof to this is said to be Meiling's monologue in Hisotensoku arcade mode and ZUN's comments in the Ten Desires music room. I don't have the clear picture about it though.
We know that TH06 to TH08 were indeed resolved, so this new trend of the incidences being unresolved could have started as early as TH09.
I think ZUN was just referring to PoFV and MoF when he said incidents are "resolved" by themselves (Reimu technically didn't "resolve" anything in PoFV or MoF since both incident causers stopped when they got what they wanted, to slack off for a bit and to publicize themselves/be worshiped by the youkai of Youkai Mountain). Hisotensoku(/IaMP/SWR) is in a class of its own (are we really gonna to consider Cirno to be stronger than Alice, Meiling, Marisa, Sanae AND Utsuho?).
As for the Ten Desires comment, ehh. you can either take that as an explanation for the time gaps between each incident or as ZUN poking fun at himself for larger than usual time gap between UFO and Ten Desires. (Which would be the last time the Reimu solved an incident)
aselus1111 said: I always wonder why touhou fandom believes that Marisa is very weak and can be easily defeated come on! She was fighting one on one with Shinki and Yuuka before the spell card rules!!.
I think that most of the fandom has never played SoEW. From a gameplay point of view, Marisa could easily crush Yukari.
