A full anime without Ash will never happen, because there's no audience for it.
Wait, so you are aware that fan demand for non-Ash Pokemon anime has always been high, yet you think "there's no audience" for it? What do you call the millions of people who watched Pokemon Generations then?
If you're saying "non Ash anime wouldn't be able to make as much merchandise", then again I call bullshit. 99% of Pokemon merchandises are the Pokemons themselves, not the human characters, so any anime with them will sell toys and whatever just as fine as long as the anime itself is popular enough.
Clamoring for Pokespe adaptation, Yugioh style adaptation of the games where protagonist changes every season, more grownup oriented anime, are among the few "non-Ash" anime ideas that has always been popular for over 15 years now. Clear your own logic, man.
Wait, so you are aware that fan demand for non-Ash Pokemon anime has always been high, yet you think "there's no audience" for it? What do you call the millions of people who watched Pokemon Generations then?
If you're saying "non Ash anime wouldn't be able to make as much merchandise", then again I call bullshit. 99% of Pokemon merchandises are the Pokemons themselves, not the human characters, so any anime with them will sell toys and whatever just as fine as long as the anime itself is popular enough.
Clamoring for Pokespe adaptation, Yugioh style adaptation of the games where protagonist changes every season, more grownup oriented anime, are among the few "non-Ash" anime ideas that has always been popular for over 15 years now. Clear your own logic, man.
I think that's only mostly in the western market. The eastern market still mostly sees Ash/Satoshi's series as THE pokemon anime, and little things like Generations as just marketing/promotion/expansion for the games.
I think that's only mostly in the western market. The eastern market still mostly sees Ash/Satoshi's series as THE pokemon anime, and little things like Generations as just marketing/promotion/expansion for the games.
Oh sure, in Japan the hate for Ash/Satoshi is nowhere as prominent as it is in the west. Japan is far more accepting to the notion of "I'm going to grow out of this anime in 3-4 years so who gives a shit about inconsistencies", so Ash never going to win a league is hardly ever an issue.
That said, the voices demanding a SECOND Pokemon anime still had always been high. I mean if Fate, Danganronpa, Monogatari and the such can have several spinoffs airing within the same year, you think a franchise bigger than all of them combined such as Pokemon can handle doing that as well.
Not to mention with how Generations had its English dub version actually released months before the Japanese version came out, or how Pokemon had aimed for a global release ever since XY, Gamefreak DO know how big their western fanbase is so it's actually unsurprising if a second anime should have been made because they listened from the requests from overseas. It's win-win marketing either way.
Oh sure, in Japan the hate for Ash/Satoshi is nowhere as prominent as it is in the west. Japan is far more accepting to the notion of "I'm going to grow out of this anime in 3-4 years so who gives a shit about inconsistencies", so Ash never going to win a league is hardly ever an issue.
That said, the voices demanding a SECOND Pokemon anime still had always been high. I mean if Fate, Danganronpa, Monogatari and the such can have several spinoffs airing within the same year, you think a franchise bigger than all of them combined such as Pokemon can handle doing that as well.
Not to mention with how Generations had its English dub version actually released months before the Japanese version came out, or how Pokemon had aimed for a global release ever since XY, Gamefreak DO know how big their western fanbase is so it's actually unsurprising if a second anime should have been made because they listened from the requests from overseas. It's win-win marketing either way.
But that's the thing. Generations already was their "second anime" for all the westerners who kept bugging them to replace Ash. Besides, replacing him would be like replacing Nobita. The pokemon anime isn't exactly meant to be a grand adventure of epic monster fighting, it's a kid's gag show that just happens to chronicle a boy on a journey instead of staying in one city. It's that formula that has been raking in the merchandise money for years. Most of the "darker" stuff is just nostalgia bait for older people to get their kids interested in the main stuff, which makes more money.
But that's the thing. Generations already was their "second anime" for all the westerners who kept bugging them to replace Ash. Besides, replacing him would be like replacing Nobita. The pokemon anime isn't exactly meant to be a grand adventure of epic monster fighting, it's a kid's gag show that just happens to chronicle a boy on a journey instead of staying in one city. It's that formula that has been raking in the merchandise money for years. Most of the "darker" stuff is just nostalgia bait for older people to get their kids interested in the main stuff, which makes more money.
Except I'm talking about requests for second anime from within Japan. I'm not talking about taking away Ash and co because again, they are making a kids show that admitted themselves over and over that "if you're no longer a kid, maybe this anime is no longer for you".
And as much as I do think Generations was well done, they were just basically just promotional advertisements for Sun and Moon banking on the nostalgia, really. I mean they're airing for free on their official channel and are all only 5 minutes apiece, it's not really Blu-Ray marketing material.
I'm talking a full series, or maybe a theatrical non-Ash movie to test the waters first if they're not sure it will work, anything that can be a profit cow in itself. Again, if smaller franchises can do it, I don't see why Pokemon could pull it and make it even bigger.
Let Ash be the star of the "kids" Pokemon anime, let the grownups have another series they can properly appreciate. And by "grownups" I mean simply the 12+ crowd, Pokemon ain't ever going to be R-15, so just keep it Shounen. As long as they keep the story quality up to par with the games(as in BW and SM), then it's a sure profit.
Except I'm talking about requests for second anime from within Japan. I'm not talking about taking away Ash and co because again, they are making a kids show that admitted themselves over and over that "if you're no longer a kid, maybe this anime is no longer for you".
And as much as I do think Generations was well done, they were just basically just promotional advertisements for Sun and Moon banking on the nostalgia, really. I mean they're airing for free on their official channel and are all only 5 minutes apiece, it's not really Blu-Ray marketing material.
I'm talking a full series, or maybe a theatrical non-Ash movie to test the waters first if they're not sure it will work, anything that can be a profit cow in itself. Again, if smaller franchises can do it, I don't see why Pokemon could pull it and make it even bigger.
Let Ash be the star of the "kids" Pokemon anime, let the grownups have another series they can properly appreciate. And by "grownups" I mean simply the 12+ crowd, Pokemon ain't ever going to be R-15, so just keep it Shounen. As long as they keep the story quality up to par with the games(as in BW and SM), then it's a sure profit.
hahaha that won't happen. the anime is first and foremost is to entertain japanese audience (which is childern,mind you). they won't make anything to market that may or may not accept the anime,evenmore if the anime isn't guaranteed to be famous as it is in japanese. they're not the one who do risky move,and that's commendable.
hahaha that won't happen. the anime is first and foremost is to entertain japanese audience (which is childern,mind you). they won't make anything to market that may or may not accept the anime,evenmore if the anime isn't guaranteed to be famous as it is in japanese. they're not the one who do risky move,and that's commendable.
1) Generations exist, again a title that clearly aimed for older fans nostalgia. And I repeat, they are better animated than the Ash series, yet are airing all those for free. That kinda kill your argument about "not gonna do a risky move".
2) Also repeating, Generations was uploaded on the english channels MONTHS before it was dubbed in Japanese. There goes your argument about "they only care about Japan".
3) Pokemon since XY had been aiming for international releases. So if they only care about Japan, why would that be the case?
4) "Companies not taking a risk" is not a commendable act. Otherwise all game companies would only be making AAA shooters and every other genres would die. It's doubly laughable when you say Nintendo affiliated franchises are too scared to take risks.
In fact SM already took many risks to the original Pokemon format already(no gyms, no HMs, unconventional evil teams, etc), and that's for a main game. Telling they're too scared to take risks for spinoffs is like saying Marvel is too scared to make movies.
5) How is making an second anime aiming for older fans risky? You do know that like One Piece and Dragonball, Pokemon actually has more 20+ years old fans than they do actual kids nowadays right? That's why Yokai Watch is winning over Pokemon as the "kids franchise", because Pokemon is progressively becoming more of a "grownups title".
And if far smaller franchises like Fate and Danganronpa can manage to make multiple animes that run back to back of each other, I don't see why Pokemon can't do it.
If making animes for older audiences is "risky" to the extent of not being worth the investment, 90% of LN animes would never even see the light of day. So again, much like Star Wars, they can be no wrong in making another Pokemon TV show.
Please, come back when your arguments don't fall completely flat.
1) Generations exist, again a title that clearly aimed for older fans nostalgia. And I repeat, they are better animated than the Ash series, yet are airing all those for free. That kinda kill your argument about "not gonna do a risky move".
2) Also repeating, Generations was uploaded on the english channels MONTHS before it was dubbed in Japanese. There goes your argument about "they only care about Japan".
3) Pokemon since XY had been aiming for international releases. So if they only care about Japan, why would that be the case?
4) "Companies not taking a risk" is not a commendable act. Otherwise all game companies would only be making AAA shooters and every other genres would die. It's doubly laughable when you say Nintendo affiliated franchises are too scared to take risks.
In fact SM already took many risks to the original Pokemon format already(no gyms, no HMs, unconventional evil teams, etc), and that's for a main game. Telling they're too scared to take risks for spinoffs is like saying Marvel is too scared to make movies.
5) How is making an second anime aiming for older fans risky? You do know that like One Piece and Dragonball, Pokemon actually has more 20+ years old fans than they do actual kids nowadays right? That's why Yokai Watch is winning over Pokemon as the "kids franchise", because Pokemon is progressively becoming more of a "grownups title".
And if far smaller franchises like Fate and Danganronpa can manage to make multiple animes that run back to back of each other, I don't see why Pokemon can't do it.
If making animes for older audiences is "risky" to the extent of not being worth the investment, 90% of LN animes would never even see the light of day. So again, much like Star Wars, they can be no wrong in making another Pokemon TV show.
Please, come back when your arguments don't fall completely flat.
lol don't use subjective reasoning like "x is better than y" to back up your claim,it won't hold any value. that anime is merely to satisfy fans nostalgia boner and won't hold any candle for ash anime. and the fact that it's uploaded on english first only means that they tried to boost international fans' hype for pokemon SM. not to see if international fans want another anime. they put the anime on TV Tokyo,FFS! how will international fans that watch it from youtube or other streaming service give them income? DVD sell? like you'll buy one.
and not taking risk is a good action,remember the adage "if it isn't broken,don't fix it" the current anime already gave the company enough hype,why should they spent more money for some unguaranteed risk? and there is a difference between "taking a new approach while staying within the root" and "went full reboot to appeal mere fringe audience" while SM take new steps,it still enjoyable for kids,unlike your want for more mature anime that'll aleniate the kids (their main audience). remember when XY anime tried to be edgy? freakin' yo-kai watch beat them on rating.
and what gave you hint that pokemon become more mature franchise? none,their game and anime is still kids-oriented.again you use your subjective view. remember their japanese ads for SM? they used kids,because that's their target. the only reason why yo-kai watch beat them is because they tried to pleased their fringe audience (older fans) which then alienate their main audience,that's why kids turn to franchise that can appeal them more,which is yo-kai watch. hence they did massive change to their anime ,to gain back the audience they lost back then.
if all of your reasoning comes from your nostalgia boner,then do not argue. your bias is really obvious.
Not sure why I'm replying but yeah, it seems your arguments are the ones more blinded by biases.
1) I stated that Generations was "better animated" as in it has higher animation quality. That part was not subjective.
2) I never stated that Generations was a "test" of any sort, only that it had proven to be successful in an international adult market. That there was a huge target demographic that would appreciate a new anime.
3) And please explain why "taking new and fresh approaches while staying on the roots" cannot be done with anime. You seem to be under the impression that I want a new Pokemon anime to be some sort of space battles when I clearly stated to only make it a Pokemon anime, only with an older cast and more adult-oriented themes.
4) As for your claims of Pokemon being adult VS kid franchise. Go reread what I wrote because the entire point flew way past your head.
Please, before accusing other people of speaking biases, be sure you're not reading with biases to the extent that basic english failed you.
Oof i did put a thousand elephants on your foot,didn't i? Seeing you get this mad. Let me reasssess your point:
1.the point of generations is just to relieve some of game events on animated form,thus not needing further continuation. Plus animation his how people see it,and peoples have diffrent visions. So it's still subjective,no matter how much you insist it isn't. 2.how do you prove that generations was successfull? Youtube views? Audiences feedback? Your own opinion? Ow guess the latest is true in your case. Next time you discuss stuff,personal prference shouldn't be the base of your claim. 3.-staying on its root -have older casts and take more mature story You can only pick one of it,you silly.my impression is that you're actually already grown off of pokemon but choose to stay due to sheer stubborness. I mean you can't even comprehend simple concept like pokemon's main demographic,"main" was the key word. 4.i knew it. My "you're actually too old to be pokefans" argument is true. See,if a franchise got beaten by other franchise on their own target demographic,they don't just give up and move on into other demography. That's just an defeatist attitude,you certainnly will get E for marketing class. They need to reassess their market approach,make some breakthroughs,and win back their target demography like a true fighter.plus now that yo-kai watch's grip on kids market is considerably weak,it's pokemon's time to reclaim their throne
And stop talking about me being biased while you wear your bias as clothes,pants,and shoes and still don't realize it.having no gyms and badges is a breakthrough,but shifting to older demography just because you"oh-so-mature" fan is stupid.
Did you really bump this post just to continue your dumb argument 2 years later?
For God's sake learn to hit the space bar after punctuation.
Also, your entire side of the argument is stupid. One of the stupidest things I've seen, in fact. Especially the apparent idea that you can't like something aimed at kids as an adult. That's real idiotic.
The original comment was directed toward me. Am i not free to answer that, irrelevant of its posting time? Or should i follow unrelated third party as you are?
if you say something is stupid,elaborate more on how it is instead of simply posting comment that should've been done in just one paragraph. You're in no position to criticize my writing.
Plus you commit same mistake as azurelorchi did. You couldn't even grasp my point but commented anyway just for the sake of disagreeing,without clear backing argument to made it worse. My entire argument is that pokemon can be entertaining without forgetting its core that is a kids-friendly franchise. Try understanding this first before commenting trash.
The original comment was directed toward me. Am i not free to answer that, irrelevant of its posting time? Or should i follow unrelated third party as you are?
No one wants to see a stupid argument from 2 years ago suddenly revived and bumped to the top of the comments section. The "No bump" button exists for a reason. This is a public forum, I'm about as unrelated to this argument as other patrons at a restaurant while a married couple make a huge scene, and you're as free to make the comment as I am to criticize you for it.
if you say something is stupid,elaborate more on how it is instead of simply posting comment that should've been done in just one paragraph. You're in no position to criticize my writing.
The why didn't you reply with one paragraph? I am certainly in a position to criticize someone who types,like,this.all,the,time.
Plus you commit same mistake as azurelorchi did. You couldn't even grasp my point but commented anyway just for the sake of disagreeing,without clear backing argument to made it worse. My entire argument is that pokemon can be entertaining without forgetting its core that is a kids-friendly franchise. Try understanding this first before commenting trash.
Literally no one was ever arguing against that, I read this whole stupid argument 2 years ago when it happened, and I read it again thanks to you bumping it for no damn reason. The entire point of the person you were arguing with was that Pokemon could make an attempt to appeal to children and teenagers. No one said anything about trying to make it for adults, no one said anything about taking it away from kids, the only thing anybody suggested was that children from 8-12 is not the only demographic the franchise could successfully market to. There's only one person here incapable of understanding what's being said to them while commenting trash, and it's not me.
How do you manage to wrote nothing via those words is unfathomable.I mean did you got diagnosed of low reading comprehension as a child?
1.for effing sake,follow your own damn word. We’re free to write and reply comment,true. So am i not free to answer argument that was DIRECTED toward me?did i violate a rule by doing so? And you are free to IGNORE me,yet you chose to get involved.then it’s on you.
2.the problem is that your critics are unsolicited,and i highlighted your inability to follow your own words by that “1 paragraph” remark. I’m neither willing nor obliged to follow your words,that’s the point. But since it’s YOU who butted in on this debate,then YOU’RE the one asking for it,not me.
3.true,it isn’t “me” but you,thee,and some fool with username BlindVigil. Haven’t i done talking about “main demography” stuff to you and Azurelorchi? It’s grown ups that’s attracted to Pokemon despite it was geared MAINLY for kids,not the other way around (in this case,gamefreak try to cater both age groups,i explain this because you definitely won’t understand this). Adults can still like kids-oriented stuff because they’re just grown-up kids anyway. There are parts of Pokemon that adults can enjoy as well. If you don’t believe it then you’ll be surprised by franchise like MLP which has thousands of mature fans despite being childs-friendly.that bloody fool azurelorchi doesn't understand that Gamefreak aren't obliged to follow that critic,entitled fans like this are the bane of fandom because they're free to leave but stay out of stubborness. But of course you’re having difficulty to understand this concept,otherwise you won’t spew all this full-of-nothing response.
4.what is the point of your rebuttal? You wrote typical passive-aggresive moronic response with template like “look i’m not here to make trouble,buuut....”. Like if you disagree with me then talk directly like a mature people (which i highly doubt)! No need to beat the bushes like talking about my writing format,the year of comment which i reply.it’s seriously apparent that you’re disagreeing with just for the sake of disagreeing,but you lack enough backing argument to do so.
Okay what the fuck, I don't even remember what I argued 2 goddamn years ago but here I'm seeing some idiot throwing insults at me when I clearly hadn't done anything to you for over 2 goddamn years.
1) Your entire attitude here is "why isn't anyone entertaining my argument? WAHWAHWAHWAHWAH" + "no u dumdum bcuz u dun agree" and YOU'RE thinking you are making arguments like an adult? And YOU wanted other people to talk to you like an adult? If you wanted to argue with me finish your goddamn arguments 2 years ago then.
What, did you fall into a coma for the past 2 years and have been constantly cursing my name the whole time? If so, I think I'm flattered. If not, I think you're not even in the position to be arguing that you should be treated as an adult.
2) My point is and has always has been Pokemon can branch out. They are big enough to make different products for different demographics and not fail.
I am NOT saying they must abandon the children demographic to appease the grownups. If Monster Hunter and Marvel can make spinoffs both for its 13+ main demographics and children alike, why can't Pokemon?
You can make one anime for the 12+ crowd and KEEP Ash. You can make one game for the 12+ crowd and KEEP a separate version for the children. But everyone can still buy either version they want.
Especially in the light of SwSh and Let's Go where the common complaints are: - shallow story - too easy - too much nostalgia pandering - Gamefreak doing clearly too little to warrant full price game
All of these could easily be solved if you just have Pokemon teen version and kids version. People who prefer Pokemon to be simple can choose the kids version while people who want a more complex experience can get the teen version. It does not mean either the adults, teens or kids are forbidden from buying the other version.
Not gonna argue any further because if you still don't understand, then I'm clearly arguing against a wall and it's a waste of everyone's time. Grow up, learn to read, and learn to let go. No amount of name calling and whining is going to get things your way.
Don't wanna direct reply because your response is too shitty to be quoted.
Good you came here,i thought i had to settle with other guy with equally stupid argument (like being disturbed by a comment in a website where G'dang everyone can visit). Here you're,but have you learned something past 2 years?
1. If you already forget what you wrote years ago,then don't ask me to remember what i did,or do you want to make stupid argument that only you that's excused to forget? I'm here because i searched pokemon posts that have been translated and finally ended up here & remembered this arguments. Being flattered by your own flawed concept is beyond stupid.
2.wow you indeed do not learn anything past these 2 years,especially when you compare gamefreak with marvel or monster hunter which have always been targetting multiple demography altogether(monster hunter has "hunter" on its name you bloody fool!how it's suitable for kids?).
Pokemon is always about 10 years old kid having adventure with pokemon,and that simple premise attract kids and then adult as well due to the simplicity of it. There's nothing (but your poor flawed argument) suggests that those problem can be properly solved by making g'dang r-rated pokemon game. How many poor r-rated game have you seen? Is adult-oriented game an all-purpose solution? NO YOU FOOL! They could include all previous pokemons on next installment and take more effort on storywriting,true, but NOTHING suggests that they have to branch their target demography to do these.
Read my response toward that moron BlindVigil! Pokemon can attract adults despite using E-rated concept and still doing so,because adults don't always need convoluted plot,gore,and cool theatrical to be entertained,i definitely can vouch this because i am not kid (but arguing with you close to made me one). Are you always this narrow minded when it comes to entertainment?
And if you don't want to reply to me anymore then do so 2 years ago.but you didn't because you're too stubborn to lose,even resorted to narrow solution. You're definitely actually already grown off of pokemon but stay due to stubborness and,like i said,sheer stupidity.
And if you don't want to reply to me anymore then do so 2 years ago.but you didn't because you're too stubborn to lose,even resorted to narrow solution. You're definitely actually already grown off of pokemon but stay due to stubborness and,like i said,sheer stupidity.
Oh my fucking god you're the one that brought up this bullshit after it fucking died 2 years ago just shut up already
It's not even worth arguing with you, please just get yourself banned
I'm talking to an idiot. Reported because evidently you clearly are not intelligent enough for anyone to have a proper conversation with.
I didn't want to talk to you 2 years ago and I didn't want to talk to you now because you're an utter imbecile and the fact you don't realize that is just about the most unbelievable thing.
1) You insist everyone is missing your point when clearly you have been closing your ears to everything everyone else said. It's a fucking flat-earther level of deliberate denial.
2) You won't stop ad hominem even after everyone kindly explaining that it is ineffective and doesn't make you seem smarter.
3) You don't remember what my arguments was 2 years ago, yet you won't stop calling me stupid for no reason. That's an unparalleled level of petty childishness.
If you're a troll, then I must congratulate for totally acting like a pathetic nuisance to the community, but I pity you for not having anything better to do with your pitiful life.
Or if not, well then go see a doctor because you clearly shouldn't be allowed to speak to anyone sane.
Adrian, no one fucking wants to continue this except you. For the love of all that is holy and unholy, Let. It. GO. Bumping a three year old argument just to continue it is unbelievably petty... even more so when it's one of the original participants doing so. Did you really need to have the last word that badly? Are you really that petty? Don't answer, those were rhetorical questions.
A quick glance at your history shows that you're barely active in the comments at all. If this going to be a preview of your future activity, lurking would be a more productive use of both your time and the time of everyone you would otherwise engage with.
I wasn't gonna. I saw him raising my name out of the blue once, and I ignored it because who cares. Then I saw it again that the guy will insists on me being some gold standard of idiocy after 2 years of no-prompt, and I just thought this guy can't be real.
