Go Mata Hari!

Wait, she's part of the Arts faction!?... I may have to raise her now. By spook and by chance, the Arts faction has slowly but surely taken over my Chaldea. I may as well give in at this point. Quick is putting up a spirited resistance, but we all know how that will end.

people actually use her?

People do. It's not common, but she does have her uses, her third skill in particular. About the only Servant in the game who is truly bad is Geronimo. Previously, I would have included Phantom of the Opera, but in recent months a glorious madman has not only regularly been using two of him in their team, but they are even clearing the challenging content with him, up to and including 6 BP Ibaraki on Rider Day.

I will always find it amusing that the Mata Hari in-game is buxom when in reality she was rather self-conscious of her small breasts and rarely would strip-off her bra.

I know that the French military recently declassified a lot of documents related to her trial, but I never saw the follow up. I assumed that most of it was a matter of paranoia and politics.

Garrus said:

Previously, I would have included Phantom of the Opera, but in recent months a glorious madman has not only regularly been using two of him in their team, but they are even clearing the challenging content with him, up to and including 6 BP Ibaraki on Rider Day.

Phantom Friday is the best part of my week.

there is only a few low stars I've invest in (arash), but i can't see myself using her after summoning a loli drunk who's very good at debuffing

Garrus said:

About the only Servant in the game who is truly bad is Geronimo.

Would you believe I'm probably the only person in the world who grailed Geronimo? All the way to gold. Because I actually like using him.

Was it a good idea? No. Do I regret it? Also no.

Garrus said:

About the only Servant in the game who is truly bad is Geronimo.

Uh, Geronimo isn't actually that bad lol. The worst Servant in the game is actually Caster Gilles.

Saladofstones said:

I will always find it amusing that the Mata Hari in-game is buxom when in reality she was rather self-conscious of her small breasts and rarely would strip-off her bra.

And Nero had a neckbeard, and Helena Blatavsky wasn't a loli, and Edison wasn't a lionman, and Solomon and David would probably be mortified to be seen out and about without yarmulkes, and at least SOME of the celts had to have been ginger.

Just go with the flow and accept character design wackiness, or you'll go insane.

Oteck said:

people actually use her?

She's a burst Defense debuffer. She can put out 60% Defense debuff for one turn and 40% for the next two after if you pair her whole kit together (or just 40% for three turns if you don't want to bother with charging her Noble Phantasm), plus a skill seal and some RNG AOE Charms. Makes her fairly good for opening Noble Phantasm chains with, and is a lot of extra damage for how common she is in the gacha.

That said, yeah, if you rolled Shuten Doji, I can see why you might not use Mata Hari, since Shuten's basically Mata Hari+.

HaroldRowsdower said:

And Nero had a neckbeard, and Helena Blatavsky wasn't a loli, and Edison wasn't a lionman, and Solomon and David would probably be mortified to be seen out and about without yarmulkes, and at least SOME of the celts had to have been ginger.

Just go with the flow and accept character design wackiness, or you'll go insane.

this is addressed in lore. popular opinion of a servants legend will effect how they materialize. Sangzang is the most ready example. He is a male, the female version even admits to it too, but as of the last 40 or so years, the depictions of the monk have been romanticized, feminized and genderbent to the point Sangzang materialized as a woman because people knew more about those retellings then the actual story.

In Mata Hari's case it can be that retellings that detail her have had women with more voluptuous figures playing the role, thus modifying her appearance

cd_young said:

this is addressed in lore. popular opinion of a servants legend will effect how they materialize.

Always found that explanation to be terrible, because prior to Fate, people clearly do not view Arthur, Attila, Nero, Nobunaga, etc as female.

I know those were instead excused as "recorded as male in history but was in truth female because historians were sexist" and whatever. But ultimately these 2 excuses are in direct conflict with each other. It's them trying to have cake and eat it too.

It's another of those pointless excuses to pretend pandering isn't the real reason.

azurelorochi said:

It's another of those pointless excuses to pretend pandering isn't the real reason.

They're hardly pretending anything, everyone knows it's done for the appeal, or just because the artists wanted to draw a waifu instead of a man. The reason given is the in-universe explanation, no one is actually stupid enough to believe that's the actual real life excuse for it, and Nasu and his team know that. If they were trying to make historically accurate designs, 90% of Fate wouldn't look the way it does and probably wouldn't be the franchise it is today.

blindVigil said:

They're hardly pretending anything, everyone knows it's done for the appeal, or just because the artists wanted to draw a waifu instead of a man. The reason given is the in-universe explanation, no one is actually stupid enough to believe that's the actual real life excuse for it, and Nasu and his team know that. If they were trying to make historically accurate designs, 90% of Fate wouldn't look the way it does and probably wouldn't be the franchise it is today.

I'm not saying the real reason wasn't obvious, I'm saying it is them pretending they are better and smarter than other genderswap mythology/history franchises like Koihime Musou or Eiyu Senki because they have in-universe explanations, when those explanations are always self-defeating and pointless.

Could go on, everyone knows I have a dozens' essays worth on what I can say about current Fate and it's exploitativeness, but I won't waste your time forcing you to read my ramblings.

azurelorochi said:

I'm not saying the real reason wasn't obvious, I'm saying it is them pretending they are better and smarter than other genderswap mythology/history franchises like Koihime Musou or Eiyu Senki because they have in-universe explanations, when those explanations are always self-defeating and pointless.

Could go on, everyone knows I have a dozens' essays worth on what I can say about current Fate and it's exploitativeness, but I won't waste your time forcing you to read my ramblings.

No, what we do know is that you, with out *fail,* will show up in a discussion about Fate and complain, and complain and complain and complain about how a FICTIONAL SERIES about gender swapped historical or mythological figures isn't realistic, or how their lore doesn't make sense when Nasu has gone out of his way to clarify *everything* in tsukihime and the fate franchise for *years* or how they're worse then series that came *after them* and were *inspired by them.*

WE GET IT.

cd_young said:

No, what we do know is that you, with out *fail,* will show up in a discussion about Fate and complain, and complain and complain and complain about how a FICTIONAL SERIES about gender swapped historical or mythological figures isn't realistic, or how their lore doesn't make sense when Nasu has gone out of his way to clarify *everything* in tsukihime and the fate franchise for *years* or how they're worse then series that came *after them* and were *inspired by them.*

WE GET IT.

I really don't want to get into long rants, but if you claim to have already read my rants a million times, then here's a few things I see you misunderstanding.

(EDIT) Originally I clarify that even if you take out accuracy and pointless convolution, there's still a ton of other reasons I can't respect modern Fate.
But you know what. I know you don't like to read my post, and when people don't enjoy what they're reading, they're also not gonna be convinced no matter what I say. So I'll just stop here. If you get my point, good. If you don't, whatever.

Saladofstones said:

I will always find it amusing that the Mata Hari in-game is buxom when in reality she was rather self-conscious of her small breasts and rarely would strip-off her bra.

I know that the French military recently declassified a lot of documents related to her trial, but I never saw the follow up. I assumed that most of it was a matter of paranoia and politics.

I figure it's due to her legend of being an insanely beautiful woman and the general idea of beauty in many areas is a large chest.