Third Panel Left: Chibi Yuuka looks adorable. Sitting there between Mokou and Keine she looks as if she could be their daughter. Especially with that dress which is somewhat similar to Mokou's clothes. :D She's got the hair obviously from Ex-Keine.
People who want to drama up Mokou's immortality always seem to forget that fairies are also eternal. Youkai are more or less immortal unless they're actively killed, there's Yuyuko and likely Youmu, Kanako and Suwako...Yeah, *eventually* they may die, but if they stay healthy, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to last just as long as Mokou and Kaguya do.
Maybe it's just because Mokou's a relative newcomer to Gensokyo and isn't used to thinking of these people as non-humans, but she's *surrounded* by people whose life expectancies can be measured in millenia. Hell, at least one of the people she lives next door to is probably older than she is!
KendraKirai said: People who want to drama up Mokou's immortality always seem to forget that fairies are also eternal. Youkai are more or less immortal unless they're actively killed, there's Yuyuko and likely Youmu, Kanako and Suwako...Yeah, *eventually* they may die, but if they stay healthy, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to last just as long as Mokou and Kaguya do.
Maybe it's just because Mokou's a relative newcomer to Gensokyo and isn't used to thinking of these people as non-humans, but she's *surrounded* by people whose life expectancies can be measured in millenia. Hell, at least one of the people she lives next door to is probably older than she is!
Well, she's a human who has suddenly obtained power and lifespan far beyond what she would normally. Off the top of my head at least, the only other person I can think of to go from human to youkai is Alice, who seems to avoid others just as much as Mokou does. Everyone else was "born" with long life spans or is completely human.
The_Shadow said: Well, she's a human who has suddenly obtained power and lifespan far beyond what she would normally. Off the top of my head at least, the only other person I can think of to go from human to youkai is Alice, who seems to avoid others just as much as Mokou does. Everyone else was "born" with long life spans or is completely human.
The 'Suddenly' was hundreds of years prior to Imperishable Night, and Alice was always kind of standoffish if I recall. I'm going to favor my 'She just isn't used to being in Gensokyo with 90% of the population having indefinite lifespans'.
KendraKirai said: People who want to drama up Mokou's immortality always seem to forget that fairies are also eternal. Youkai are more or less immortal unless they're actively killed, there's Yuyuko and likely Youmu, Kanako and Suwako...Yeah, *eventually* they may die, but if they stay healthy, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to last just as long as Mokou and Kaguya do.
Fairies, youkai, gods, ghosts and other supernaturals can only last as long as Gensokyo does, or as long as the earth or the universe itself. Most of them are tied to nature and when nature finally folds they will disappear as well.
Mokou, Kaguya and anyone else who drank the Hourai Elixir will last beyond THAT, even beyond the end of all reality. They'll be kicking (each other) even after nothingness itself packs its bags and takes a trip.
So yeah, nothing can outlast Mokou (and Kaguya by extension). Of course, that will only become an issue somewhere WAY beyond the end of ZUN canon so like you said there's nothing to drama up.
RNGCombo said: Fairies, youkai, gods, ghosts and other supernaturals can only last as long as Gensokyo does, or as long as the earth or the universe itself. Most of them are tied to nature and when nature finally folds they will disappear as well.
Mokou, Kaguya and anyone else who drank the Hourai Elixir will last beyond THAT, even beyond the end of all reality. They'll be kicking (each other) even after nothingness itself packs its bags and takes a trip.
So yeah, nothing can outlast Mokou (and Kaguya by extension). Of course, that will only become an issue somewhere WAY beyond the end of ZUN canon so like you said there's nothing to drama up.
You guys seem to forget that it's not about immortality itself, but about the process of always outliving the humans and loved ones around them. Fairies will always have their fairy friends, but immortal humans will lose their human friends.
RNGCombo said: Along with their fairy friends, their ghost friends, their celestial friends, their youkai friends, their divine friends etc. etc. etc. given time.
The only friends they can expect to keep are each other. That's why their immortality is so significant here.
All true... but it hasn't happened yet, which the key point that too often gets overlooked. A lot of the portrayals have Mokou in particular acting as if she's in the middle of the funeral when no one has died yet or (in the case of her mortal family) has long been dead already. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some sadness there but there is a thin line between pathos and bathos.
Fairies, youkai, gods, ghosts and other supernaturals can only last as long as Gensokyo does, or as long as the earth or the universe itself. Most of them are tied to nature and when nature finally folds they will disappear as well.
Mokou, Kaguya and anyone else who drank the Hourai Elixir will last beyond THAT, even beyond the end of all reality. They'll be kicking (each other) even after nothingness itself packs its bags and takes a trip.
So yeah, nothing can outlast Mokou (and Kaguya by extension). Of course, that will only become an issue somewhere WAY beyond the end of ZUN canon so like you said there's nothing to drama up.
You do realize that you are over exagerating with the mokou and kaguya thing out living existence itself. Were do you got that from ? with that logic that means that they will out live the gods, ghosts,spirits or even GOD Himself as well witch that will be completely BS imo. Yes they are tied with nature the nature of Gensokyo.If Gensokyo itself whould die somehow the majority of the cast will as well bc they can't exist in the outside world anymore we people of the outside world can kill them or even making them weaker probably by denying their existance,not being afraid of them (the youkais) and not given faith to the Gods.If is not ZUN words (even though you can rely believe or take seriously what he says all the time since he is half drunk ) then is not canon period.
People who want to drama up Mokou's immortality always seem to forget that fairies are also eternal. Youkai are more or less immortal unless they're actively killed, there's Yuyuko and likely Youmu, Kanako and Suwako...Yeah, *eventually* they may die, but if they stay healthy, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to last just as long as Mokou and Kaguya do.
Maybe it's just because Mokou's a relative newcomer to Gensokyo and isn't used to thinking of these people as non-humans, but she's *surrounded* by people whose life expectancies can be measured in millenia. Hell, at least one of the people she lives next door to is probably older than she is!
I am pretty sure that youkais don't have eternal youth as well they can live for a lot of time but not forever they are old man/women youkais.Maybe in Gensokyo only seeing how Reimu,Marisa etc haven't age one bit since their debut bc the in-games years are real-time like the year of the game release is the same in-game from what i understood. Haven't you watch or read Inuyasha and i am pretty sure that it is more consistent with his supernatural creatures and mythos then Touhou.
Master_elite said: Yes they are tied with nature the nature of Gensokyo.If Gensokyo itself whould die somehow the majority of the cast will as well bc they can't exist in the outside world anymore we people of the outside world can kill them or even making them weaker probably by denying their existance,not being afraid of them (the youkais) and not given faith to the Gods.
The faith thing is an issue but as far as it has been explained that's tied more to manifestation and presence rather than existence. As to what the Outside World is like in terms of youkai and magic, and such, Symposium of Post-Mysticism goes into good detail about these topics and how they tie into the phantasmagoric "youkai." For a quick example of what I mean: Mamizou is a locally distinguished tanuki Onmyōji; that doesn't makes sense based on the image of the Outside World we've had up to that point. Personally, I'm surprised few batted an eye when MoF came out.
Master_elite said: Maybe in Gensokyo only seeing how Reimu,Marisa etc haven't age one bit since their debut bc the in-games years are real-time like the year of the game release is the same in-game from what i understood.
They age base on plot time, in which you don't actually age until it's important that you are older.
The faith thing is an issue but as far as it has been explained that's tied more to manifestation and presence rather than existence. As to what the Outside World is like in terms of youkai and magic, and such, Symposium of Post-Mysticism goes into good detail about these topics and how they tie into the phantasmagoric "youkai." For a quick example of what I mean: Mamizou is a locally distinguished tanuki Onmyōji; that doesn't makes sense based on the image of the Outside World we've had up to that point. Personally, I'm surprised few batted an eye when MoF came out.
They age base on plot time, in which you don't actually age until it's important that you are older.
Hatate prove my point perfectly about how humans can make the youkai go extinct.It is based on her observation on humanity and our progress and such it is in one of the side materials. Still it proves my point if we don't have faith in them they are good as death or even worse and in mytos stories gods can die quite easily actually and the age thing i fiend it quite stupid imo Reimu,Marisa,Alice(maybe less),Sakuya etc are all technically humans they should age period the only logical way i see is that is bc Gensokyo itself the humans there don't age as as fast as the out side ones but i guess logic is not one of ZUN strong points lol Its cool otherwise we will have a too old Reimu,Marisa etc and the fandome will explode i guess but,thanks for the info btw what do you mean a few batted an eye when MOF came out ?
IINM, based on older discussion about youkai, and more importantly the immortality.
Youkai's real form is in the collective consciousness, that's why they respawn like the Servants in Fate. They're just a physical embodiment of the concept (+individual details).
When a kid is afraid of Boogeyman under his bed, a youkai is born. Even after the Boogeyman is killed in the climax, when he's feeling fear of "something" hidden in the darkness under the bed, the fear got a shape again.
The reverse is probably the process of naming a god. For example, a tree or mountain has great spiritual power, but this is abstract. Then human venerated them and gave them a name. The concept is then bound and shaped by the name into a god. This is also personality of the god, because force of nature don't have personality, they just work according to the natural law.
The idea is the same as "the world exist when there's an observer". The concept like youkai in Gensoukyou exist because there's humans who observed their existence. Here's another old problem. Are we real ? Maybe all of you only exist because I perceived so; and when I die, the world die with me.
The problem is with something like the Lunarian. If their existence doesn't depend on the human isolated in Gensoukyou, they have an autonomous system working in the same world as Gensoukyou.
Also the idea of the Hourai elixir is stopping change. The question is how long that concept can survive. If it can sustain itself, Mokou will still be alive to eternity. She might be invisible to human though, which makes her technically "not existing" in the framework of human as observer, but she still exist in the framework of the Hourai elixir or Kaguya.
IINM, based on older discussion about youkai, and more importantly the immortality.
Youkai's real form is in the collective consciousness, that's why they respawn like the Servants in Fate. They're just a physical embodiment of the concept (+individual details).
When a kid is afraid of Boogeyman under his bed, a youkai is born. Even after the Boogeyman is killed in the climax, when he's feeling fear of "something" hidden in the darkness under the bed, the fear got a shape again.
The reverse is probably the process of naming a god. For example, a tree or mountain has great spiritual power, but this is abstract. Then human venerated them and gave them a name. The concept is then bound and shaped by the name into a god. This is also personality of the god, because force of nature don't have personality, they just work according to the natural law.
The idea is the same as "the world exist when there's an observer". The concept like youkai in Gensoukyou exist because there's humans who observed their existence. Here's another old problem. Are we real ? Maybe all of you only exist because I perceived so; and when I die, the world die with me.
The problem is with something like the Lunarian. If their existence doesn't depend on the human isolated in Gensoukyou, they have an autonomous system working in the same world as Gensoukyou.
Also the idea of the Hourai elixir is stopping change. The question is how long that concept can survive. If it can sustain itself, Mokou will still be alive to eternity. She might be invisible to human though, which makes her technically "not existing" in the framework of human as observer, but she still exist in the framework of the Hourai elixir or Kaguya.
In short we humans can ''kill'' them bc we ''created'' them with our imagination. Again you people prove my point btw no need to explain it anymore i knew that, but thanks the topic is over, at this point it is just personal theory's that many times overblown,god-mod the characters bc that is how the fandome roll,some stuff what you have said aren't 100% true and proven until ZUN said so even in canon and that will probably never going to happen. We can go on forever like this and i am pretty sure what you have said apply only for Touhou like i said in Inuyasha that takes itself much serious then Touhou is more consistent and probably in real life mythos stories as well but that's not way people love Touhou bc at the end of the day they are just VG they love the gameplay,the dif, the music,characters etc.
Just don't go that far out to sea from now on....that everything around me...WhhffffCheacher, you looked awesome!——I thought I understood......will all be gone someday...The next group will start off in five minutes.Uh, no, that's...Cheacher, we owe you our lives! Yes, he lisps "teacher".How can we ever thank you?It's okay, it's okay!Are you hurt, teacher!?——and yet......that's all right.Thank you for saving uuuuus!!Don't you kipe someone else's meat!I'm scared, Cirno!Whoo-hoo! Barbecue!That one's still only half-cooked!Your beef ribs are mine!I'm the strongest, so I'm not afraid of anything!What was that power you used, teacher!? It was wicked!Cheacher, lemme squeeze your boobies!She'll roast you!
