She's okay, right? It takes more than this to take her out, right? She'll just get right up, and then Komachi will join her, and then they'll beat those evil immortals, right!?
So, Eiki and Mokou apparently have brittle bone disease, while the Immortals have magically developed super strength, despite not having any evidence of such abilities anywhere in the past.
And it's not like this series has done this for everyone before...I mean, in just about every previous match, the combatants displayed physical abilities roughly analogous with what they've had in the canon and fanon (Sanae and Reimu aren't flying around the ring like superheroes, the vampire sisters ARE, etc), they weren't jumping around up to the ceiling and shit unless they were supposed to be super-human, like Byakuren, or had wings, or what have you.
Kaguya and Mokou suddenly having super-human physical attributes is the worst part about this, for me. It's a total goddamned asspull, even as characters that should be physical powerhouses capable of withstanding great punishment (Komachi and Eiki) seem to be succumbing to a handful of attacks. And while Kaguya and Mokou ARE the super-regenerating immortals normally, the barrier should be inhibiting a lot of that, rather than their seemingly COMPLETELY IGNORING the attacks of a massively strong combatant one strip or so after they land.
It's just terrible writing. And I've read the entire series without complaining thus far. It's disappointing. And I don't like it.
Kaguya is a Lunarian and we've all seen what Eirin has been capable of in and out of this series in terms of strenght.
Mokou has been fighting off Kaguya for all this time, even without the benefits of her immortality it's not like she'd just be your average human in terms of strenght and resistance (especially since they do feel pain and die and then regenerate every once in a while, I'd figure Kaguya and Mokou to have serious levels of endurance by now).
Plus, they have quicker recovery than anyone else (besides Cirno) thanks to whatever immortality is not affected by the barrier.
Resistance + Regen = Ragequit levels of tanking power
However, the Hourai Elixer is supposed to "freeze" the body into the state it was in when it was taken for eternity. This should prevent growing physically stronger through training or the hardship of endless battles. I don't recall Zun ever actually stating that Mokou had short hair pre-elixer, as she was depicted with in most fanon, and that's the one point, Mokou's hair having grown in fanon, that really physically changed about either of them since taking it. Being able to increase their physical strength should be more or less impossible.
But it's manga. So I know that trying to rationalize things based on a real-world basis is an exercise in futility (needing to alter the state of one's muscles to get stronger, for instance), but still.
And I've always figured that Eirin was simply far more capable than Kaguya on the physical stage, in canon, fanon, and otherwise, due to her actually training such abilities, not out of any inherent Lunarian prowess.
Still, all that aside, it's just so wildly out of whack with their typically displayed physical abilities compared to how other characters have been portrayed (even physically-based characters like Rin or Ran haven't displayed the over the top abilities Kaguya and Mokou have pulled out of nowhere) that it can't help but feel too discordant to be acceptable. Particularly when Komachi and Eiki, at the same time, get taken down like they were nothing, despite their supposedly very impressive canon/fanon might.
Leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and that's too bad, because I've really enjoyed the series up till much of this match.
Also, yeah you should probably try and rationalize a bit less, I mean, all the girls are wearing super skimpy outfits and are using supreme wrestling moves. I think there's just a bit more room for things to get stretched out for the sake of dramatic combat (though, I still don't think it's that much of a stretch that Kaguya and Mokou are indeed capable (and unbeliably TOUGH) fighters without danmaku or most of their immortality).
They had to double team Komachi and then had to double team Eiki, so it's not like they had an easy fight to pull off anyways.
As has been said, the recovery went from slow to almost instant as the match has gone on.
Also Zun in either official work (PMSS and BRA) of his has mentioned if a character is particularity strong either in danmaku or physically.
Mokou and Kaguya being depicted as physically strong is at odds with the fact that Mokou is human. Even if you could accept Kaguya being strong, Mokou should not even be in the same ballpark.
As was said in PMSS
3: Humans are physically disadvantaged compared to youkai, so a formal match is important.
Immortal or not, Mokou should not be physically a super human. Unlike danmaku physical limits still do apply (with some exceptions).
Only thing I can see her apologizing for is callong her boobs lewd a while back and that doesn't count for nothing.
So basicly this match is done and over with unless dei shirou is going to pull a WWE on us by having a barley conscious Shiki refusing to stay down and when she finaly gets koed out of nowhere puts a triangle hold on either Mokou or Kaguya, maybe both seeing how impossable things can be done... Yes I refrenced The Undertaker here.
DHP said: Only thing I can see her apologizing for is callong her boobs lewd a while back and that doesn't count for nothing.
So basicly this match is done and over with unless dei shirou is going to pull a WWE on us by having a barley conscious Shiki refusing to stay down and when she finaly gets koed out of nowhere puts a triangle hold on either Mokou or Kaguya, maybe both seeing how impossable things can be done... Yes I refrenced The Undertaker here.
Apologizing to her for dragging her into this thing where she got hurt.
As for the remark about the immortals having plot armor? doubt it'd hold up to Sanae's good girl plot power fueled by her opponent's discord. And with those two being enemies for countless years... though at this point I'd welcome a Sanae intervention.
Here I was hoping a decent heel team was running, Dei Shirou falls into the quagmire of never letting the hero's lose.
WHICH ULTIMATELY MAKES THE STORY BORING IF FACE TEAMS NEVER LOSE.
Which is why the only decent fight was Hirji and Shou vs Tenshi and Okuu, both were faces that just wanted a good fight, no ulterior plots or insane losings of shit, just a straight fight with no strings.
cd_young said: Here I was hoping a decent heel team was running, Dei Shirou falls into the quagmire of never letting the hero's lose.
WHICH ULTIMATELY MAKES THE STORY BORING IF FACE TEAMS NEVER LOSE.
Which is why the only decent fight was Hirji and Shou vs Tenshi and Okuu, both were faces that just wanted a good fight, no ulterior plots or insane losings of shit, just a straight fight with no strings.
Friendly Fire isn't a face team. Not even close. No matter how much they claim to be.
StriderTuna said: As for the remark about the immortals having plot armor? doubt it'd hold up to Sanae's good girl plot power fueled by her opponent's discord. And with those two being enemies for countless years... though at this point I'd welcome a Sanae intervention.
They won't necessarily even face Team Moriya, though. I suspect we're going to see a miko match next round, and if there's anyone in this tournament who can beat Sanae, it's probably Reimu.
Andulusi said: They won't necessarily even face Team Moriya, though. I suspect we're going to see a miko match next round, and if there's anyone in this tournament who can beat Sanae, it's probably Reimu.
As a quick reminder, Marisa's team didn't get its chance to fight yet. Maybe Shirou just forgot she exists.
Goldva said: As a quick reminder, Marisa's team didn't get its chance to fight yet. Maybe Shirou just forgot she exists.
She'd just do so later, this whole tournament has been rather odd as there's been two cases of a team with one match won facing a team who's fighting their first match.
As for teams that can hope to beat Sanae? Mainly Remiu/Remilia, Sakuya/Suika, or HJ as there's no underlying issues with those two. (And what issues Reimu and Remilia had got sorted out in their first match)
Skribulous said: Friendly Fire isn't a face team. Not even close. No matter how much they claim to be.
They're not fighting as one now. But Kaguya worked damn hard to sell herself and Moku as Faces, even going as far as nearly getting Reisen killed by the audience.
Goldva said: As a quick reminder, Marisa's team didn't get its chance to fight yet. Maybe Shirou just forgot she exists.
Marisa and Nitori vs. Reimu and Remilia is the final fight of this round.
Then there's the Sakuya and Suika vs. Yuugi and Orin rematch (the one that will actually feature Tenshi and Okuu instead of the hell team due to shenanigans). Count that as a mini-round in of itself (only way the math ends up making any sense), and then the next round features the winner of that, the winner of this, the winner of Reimu vs. Marisa, and Team Moriya who are so far the only team to have actually won a fight in this round of the tournament.
Andulusi said: Marisa and Nitori vs. Reimu and Remilia is the final fight of this round.
Then there's the Sakuya and Suika vs. Yuugi and Orin rematch (the one that will actually feature Tenshi and Okuu instead of the hell team due to shenanigans). Count that as a mini-round in of itself (only way the math ends up making any sense), and then the next round features the winner of that, the winner of this, the winner of Reimu vs. Marisa, and Team Moriya who are so far the only team to have actually won a fight in this round of the tournament.
EimiYoshikawa said: And while Kaguya and Mokou ARE the super-regenerating immortals normally, the barrier should be inhibiting a lot of that, rather than their seemingly COMPLETELY IGNORING the attacks of a massively strong combatant one strip or so after they land.
The barrier isn't supposed to do anything to self-targeted abilities like regeneration. Besides Kaguya and Mokou's immortality is absolute; there's nothing that stop it from working, not even Yukari's uber-broken boundary powers.
And Mokou connects up too in mid-air!Episode 694: Second Generation's Combination TechniqueFrom the Artist's Pixiv page.Too late!!
- MokouWith Flair!I'm not totally eager with it, but that's the way to go!
- KaguyaGuh...
Turning 6 to 9...
- ShikieikiThe counter invented by Buffaloman to counter the Kinniku Buster by flipping it.And there it is!A finishing move has to be flashy!
-KaguyaWhen your enemy has overwhelming strength, you confuse them and then smash them.
-KaguyaBecause things didn't go straight,
-Kaguya
