I've gotta side with Marisa on this one. Also, where's Momiji's hat?

The "Before DS" was fanon anyway, ZUN never said Momiji likes Aya in MoF.

ForteGVN said:
The "Before DS" was fanon anyway, ZUN never said Momiji likes Aya in MoF.

Oh. Thanks for the info.

ForteGVN said:
The "Before DS" was fanon anyway, ZUN never said Momiji likes Aya in MoF.

Yup. I still would agree with Marisa though.

Oh please, most people think that Zun is trolling them, because they think that the fanon is true, they are many examples of that.

The only time that Sakuya becomes playable, is because the incident affects the SMD, I doubt she would care otherwise.

Mima isn't much of a evil spirit anymore, she rather troll Reimu than cause trouble (unless it anoys her, either way), that, and it's too much trouble for Zun. Another way of looking at this, is that she doesn't like the Spellcard rules.

Sanae... why do people hate her again?

Letty, does not even want to be compared to cirno.

Anyways, it proves that Zun like to do things his own way, and not listen to the crazy demands of his fans. Probably a ploy to make his fans create more fangames.

I say most of the Touhou fan are ignorant. Just look at the comments about Sakuya's breasts, Meiling's work, and stupid lame freaking pairing like YuukaxWriggle.

Seriously. But we can't stop that, I don't care anymore.

ForteGVN said:
I say most of the Touhou fan are ignorant. Just look at the comments about Sakuya's breasts, Meiling's work, and stupid lame freaking pairing like YuukaxWriggle.

Seriously. But we can't stop that, I don't care anymore.

And the ever-annoying meme about "no man in Gensokyo". All that is okay when it stays a meme and a joke, but it often crosses the line.

I should be surprised that this is the one picture the person's made that has the most comments. Then again, I could tell it was gonna happen.

I'd prefer that Zun does things his own way (or at least not kowtow to the fans). If he does things that proves fanon wrong, then the fans are going to be hella-pissed, but they'll either ignore it or move on and make better stuff. If he confirmed the insane theories of the fans, he'd only be enabling them. We've seen what happened to Cirno thanks to that circle-9 thing.

As in Cirno became so popular that she even got her own game? Mind you, ZUN himself started the 9-thing, not the fans.

JackyHF said:
As in Cirno became so popular that she even got her own game? Mind you, ZUN himself started the 9-thing, not the fans.

That's kind of what I meant, though. I've not seen much of Cirno pre-PoFV, but from what I've gathered, Cirno was portrayed as being a hyperactive child more than anything. Then Zun labelled her an idiot and she was lost to the fandom's Flanderisation.

Fairy Wars and the Hisoutensoku inclusion might've been trying to flesh Cirno out a bit, but people still see her as an idiot who doesn't have two brain cells to rub together.

This whole topic will never sit well with me.

That's enough folks, this is getting out of hand, everyone back to their corners and cool your heads before I get someone who can do that FOR you.

JakeBob said:
Cirno Cirno Zun Flanderisation. Cirno

I laughed.

JakeBob said:
That's kind of what I meant, though. I've not seen much of Cirno pre-PoFV, but from what I've gathered, Cirno was portrayed as being a hyperactive child more than anything. Then Zun labelled her an idiot and she was lost to the fandom's Flanderisation.

Fairies were canonically dumb even before this ⑨ neta, and obviously Cirno, being the only named fairy for some time, was considered an idiot by fans. ⑨ made it worse, and the fandom's Flanderization completed the job.

Speaking of Flandre, Flandre's lack of appearance ever since Embodiment of Scarlet Devil can partially be blamed on the fandom. In a popularity tournament (a tournament, mind you, where two characters stand against each other for popularity votes), Suika and Flandre once were in competition. Back then, ZUN used to participate in popularity polls, and ZUN put a vote for Suika, even revealing the Suika illustrations he made during the development of Immaterial and Missing power. Flandre fans, Flanderized by this, went to ZUN's site and committed written violence. ZUN never participated in any popularity polls ever since, and Flandre almost never appeared in any official work after it. I won't say ZUN now hates Flandre herself, but he must have learnt how much the fandom can get Flanderized for Flandre, and started getting careful. Fandom can really do something.

Not to mention how the fandom contributed to the popularity of Touhou and produced negative effects, namely all this over-the-top portrayals intended purely for comedic or adorable effects. Or excessive relation of Touhou to sex. That's why artists who refrain from such effects are so rare and the reason they're usually among my favorites.

Lick_King said:
...Flandre fans, Flanderized by this, went to ZUN's site and committed written violence...

Dear Shenron in the sky! what is wrong with people!

JakeBob said:
I should be surprised that this is the one picture the person's made that has the most comments. Then again, I could tell it was gonna happen.

I'd prefer that Zun does things his own way (or at least not kowtow to the fans). If he does things that proves fanon wrong, then the fans are going to be hella-pissed, but they'll either ignore it or move on and make better stuff. If he confirmed the insane theories of the fans, he'd only be enabling them. We've seen what happened to Cirno thanks to that circle-9 thing.

Out of all the examples of Fanon that you could have used, you used the one character that benefited from Fanon the most? Cirno's memes helped launch her to the point where she got a playable spot in a fighting game, got a story mode in that fighting game (The Final Boss of SA and the Extra boss of MoF didn't even get one.) and then got her own gaiden game where she was the only playable character. Only Aya and Reimu can claim that. Cirno is the exact opposite of what you meant by "fanon warping." You want to see fanon warping in true form? Look at Tenshi. Look at Kaguya. Those two are the biggest shining examples of fanon absolutely destroying characters because they hate them or they think it's funny. The two of them are some of my favorites too.

Fanon benefits some characters...and who it does depends entirely on the whims of the fans.

Cosmic-Fusion said:
Out of all the examples of Fanon that you could have used, you used the one character that benefited from Fanon the most? Cirno's memes helped launch her to the point where she got a playable spot in a fighting game, got a story mode in that fighting game (The Final Boss of SA and the Extra boss of MoF didn't even get one.) and then got her own gaiden game where she was the only playable character. Only Aya and Reimu can claim that. Cirno is the exact opposite of what you meant by "fanon warping." You want to see fanon warping in true form? Look at Tenshi. Look at Kaguya. Those two are the biggest shining examples of fanon absolutely destroying characters because they hate them or they think it's funny. The two of them are some of my favorites too.

Fanon benefits some characters...and who it does depends entirely on the whims of the fans.

ZUN has gone on record explaining that most final/extra bosses aren't in the fighting games for balance/power reasons.

ZUN also explained that he chose Cirno (and the other fairies) for Fairy Wars and the mangas specifically because they ARE weak (compared to every other character).

MMaestro said:
ZUN has gone on record explaining that most final/extra bosses aren't in the fighting games for balance/power reasons.

ZUN also explained that he chose Cirno (and the other fairies) for Fairy Wars and the mangas specifically because they ARE weak (compared to every other character).

Pretty sure that applies to extra stage bosses only. Remilia, Yuyuko, Komachi, Kanako's got a cameo, Utsuho are all in 12.3. Whereas Yukari and Suwako are the only EX+ bosses to appear.

Fanon helps the popularity, but...that's it. It doesn't help much else, apart from nice reading material.

Hold on. I'm quite sure ZUN said Mokou and Kaguya were refused into the game because their appearance would make the game real fights rather than playing danmaku.

I thought the entire balancing them meant the actual in-game balance... not what actual powers they had.

Lick_King said:
Hold on. I'm quite sure ZUN said Mokou and Kaguya were refused into the game because their appearance would make the game real fights rather than playing danmaku.

True, but it's also still true he said Mokou(not sure about Kaguya) would'nt appear because Mokou specifically would be OP.

But I would love being trolled by Zun...Now if he would add some more nice male character...it would be even better.....

Tetsamaru said:
True, but it's also still true he said Mokou(not sure about Kaguya) would'nt appear because Mokou specifically would be OP.

I thought Mokou and Teruyo were both considered for SWR/Soku, but the designers didn't have time to make them work in the game engine and scrapped them.

There's a whole lot of MY TOUHOUES ;_; in this comment section.

HT_Rock said:
I thought Mokou and Teruyo were both considered for SWR/Soku, but the designers didn't have time to make them work in the game engine and scrapped them.

No, that is true as well. In other words, so much shit happened to Kaguya and Mokou, that was the reason why we didn't get them. ZUN actually already has some movesets set up for Mokou and Kaguya. But due to not having enough time to balance things out, scrapped them. That was why he mentioned Mokou being OP. He actually had enough material to put Mokou(again, not sure about Kaguya) in the game but her Alpha(or whatever stage she was in) moveset made her ridiculously broken. So he couldn't exactly say "Fuck, i'll just put her in there anyway".

Lick_King said:
Flanderized, Flandre, Suikia, Polling and ZUN, etc..

Say, who won that poll?

LunarInsanity said:
Say, who won that poll?

I don't know. The final winner of that poll was Meiling, followed by Sakuya though.

Well, if you use logic and shit along with the official profile, Mokou is the one that had the worst past ever in history. She survived and got the power to control over fire, which is hinted to be connected with Phoenix.

Gathering all the myths and look at the history of stuff involving "immortality", I don't see why she can't be OP. I mean, heck, she probably got kidnapped and eaten alive so many time you couldn't count, and then tortured to hell and back so she would spit out if there is any elixir left.

Pain, vain, loneliness. If she could smile in the game, I must say Keine did a very good job as a friend.

ForteGVN said:
Well, if you use logic and shit along with the official profile, Mokou is the one that had the worst past ever in history. She survived and got the power to control over fire, which is hinted to be connected with Phoenix.

Gathering all the myths and look at the history of stuff involving "immortality", I don't see why she can't be OP. I mean, heck, she probably got kidnapped and eaten alive so many time you couldn't count, and then tortured to hell and back so she would spit out if there is any elixir left.

Pain, vain, loneliness. If she could smile in the game, I must say Keine did a very good job as a friend.

Why the hell is this comment downvoted?

Anyway, that's why I like Mokou as a character. Or, put correctly, I like the trio Mokou & Keine & Kaguya put together, not separately. Masaki does a great job with them as well.

ForteGVN said:
Gathering all the myths and look at the history of stuff involving "immortality", I don't see why she can't be OP.

Gameplay.